.com Forum · Real Show Dogs

I figured while I have nothing to do on this snowy day, i would also give my show bitch Kiki some web time,

Kiki is a west german showline imported from Hauswalder Bach kennel in Germany.

Is she the epitome of the German Shepherd Dog? No, but she has a very clear, honest, stable, free temperament and she is a very happy, geeky dog. She does the work and has fun doing it, but she will never work to the caliber of a working line.

She is NOT extreme in her topline. She is straighter, especially standing 4-square. She is longer, and wider. Typical of the west german showlines, black and red rich pigment, thick polar bear like coat, heavy bone, big ol' head.

She has her hips and elbows rated through SV at "a" normal. She has her breed survey through an SV keormeister. Her V show rating, and her IPO1 title. She actually scored in the 80's for tracking and protection, which is pretty good for the showlines.

Is she a hard dog? No. Is she a fighter during protection? No, she runs on prey drive and goes along for the ride. Is there mental and physical stability, and substance that can be beneficial to the showline german shepherd dog through selective breeding? Absolutely.
She has the freest, happiest, clearest temperament I've ever experienced in a showline, and ive raised/trained 4 of them. She is the only one I actually enjoy living with, the others were complete nerve bags and didnt know how to settle or be "at peace" in their own company. I can take her anywhere, with anyone, in any situation, and do anything with her and she handles it with an "i got this" attitude. She didnt hesitate to be ALL over Santa, all geek style. Where i had never exposed her to such an event before, she was rushed by kids, adults doing the "Your dog is gorgeous" tummy rub where she melted into them. Different surfaces, loud noises, different settings, "shes got this". I can honestly say I love this dog.

She will also be bred in January to an unbelievable working showline that also recieved his IPO2 title at the trial this past weekend where I was with Ollie. He is an incredible example of the breed, he is also not extreme physically and has a very free temperament. He fights and brings a lot to the table in the protection work, helpers that don't know him are very surprised by his power. The line breeding will be on Multiple VA Zamp vom Thermados.

Here is kiki's pedigree for those interested,
www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=1840600-kiki-vom-hauswalder-bach

Here is the Geek herself:






I VERY rarely let my dogs out together, especially two intact bitches. Because i would HOPE, yes, hope, that they would do as intact mature bitches would do, and there would be a blood bath.
However, they are both young. Kiki has had a litter, and ollie has not. Kiki is again, more of a "good dog" than a good "german shepherd dog" so she doesnt really have much aggression. However, I will not be able to do this once Ollie has had a litter, her bloodline is very old school and real.

But for now on occasion i let them have fun.




Another reason they do not socialize much at all is because, to be at a high level competitor in the sport the dog must understand that the handler, and the bad guy, are all that matters. Rewards, happiness, fun, comes from me and me only. So obtaining such things from other dogs, where there is no pressure, and a lot more freedom, takes away the value of dog/handler time. On the occasion, it is fine. But not on the regular.

Anywho, enjoy!

Beautiful girl love her rich dark pigment and how she looks standing four square I still love Olie more but this girl is just stunning cant wait to continue seeing pics I have missed them and just love your shepherds you have such an awesome eye on finding a good shepherd.

Jana

VERY interesting to read your description of her temperament and working ability as she is linebred on Zamp.

Thank you so much for posting about your bitches!

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posted by chocolateteapot
VERY interesting to read your description of her temperament and working ability as she is linebred on Zamp.

Thank you so much for posting about your bitches!

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Thank you for appreciating my sharing of them

We have been in and out of the vet for the past several days (brucellosis test, and multiple progesterone tests) and its a new vet, and her first time being at a vet in my ownership. I have received nothing but compliments about her temperament by the vet staff. I mean legitimate compliments, "This is how a german shepherd dog SHOULD be" and "Its been a very long time since I've seen a shepherd come in here that "free"" So it definitely confirms every reason behind why I feel confindent breeding this bitch.

She will be bred tomorrow, Saturday and Sunday to this male. He is IPO3, kkl1 rated with "a" fast normal hips and "a" normal elbows.
He is likely considered to be a very "ugly" show line, his top line is not the greatest and his croup could be longer. HOWEVER, the temperament is unbeatable and his workability is that of a working dog. It is an outcross breeding, trying to water down some of the Zamp in her pedigree. Also his pedigree brings more stability to the table. Plan would be to keep a bitch from the litter and keep an eye on the males wherever they end up.

This is "Max" aka V Oran vom kleinen Teich
www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=561017-oran-vom-kleinen-teich

Wow - I also really enjoyed this post! Not only the pictures but what you had to say and how you explained everything in depth. I was kind of sad when the post ended! haha Good luck with the litter! I expect pictures!!

Love your dogs and how you went into detail about temperements, i do have some questions, do yourdogs live in the house or in a kennel, and the books i have read have described dogs as pack animals who enjoy the company of other dogs in the household but you keep yours apart? Dogs would prefer not to have solitary lives

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posted by sableteeny
Love your dogs and how you went into detail about temperements, i do have some questions, do yourdogs live in the house or in a kennel, and the books i have read have described dogs as pack animals who enjoy the company of other dogs in the household but you keep yours apart? Dogs would prefer not to have solitary lives

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"Dogs would prefer not to live solitary lives" This statement is funny to me, did a dog tell you that? Hah (i did intend that to be funny, not mean btw)

Dogs are by nature pack animals, yes. Be it a human pack, or a canine pack.

My dogs are kenneled, indoor/outdoor runs and at night they are closed into the indoor part of the kennel where they are on tiled floor, with pine shavings and the kennel itself is insulated so they are "warm".
They kennel runs outside are divided with plywood between the runs, this eliminates fence fighting, obsessive fence running, and prevents the potential for breeding through the fence (I've seen it.)
The portion of the kennels on the inside are like that of horse stalls, solid wood.
They do not socialize with eachother UNLESS there is supervision, and usually ONLY during breaks from trial season, like right now. I am not actively training due to holidays, end of year/fourth quarter crazy work hours, snow, etc. So i am MORE likely to let the dogs out together to burn energy. 9/10 times however, they could CARE LESS about eachother, do their own thing, and come back to me all "So are we training or what because I want to do something with YOU" Which is what I want. I am their pack.

In the high level sport world, the majority of people that are competing at regional, national, and world level trials will kennel their dogs. This is so the dogs are mentally "free" and not under constant obedience (when the dog is in the house, it IS constant obedience whether you want to believe it or not...dont do this dont do that, go lay down, etc) They dogs are content in their own company, have no problem settling. It also allows you to develop serious bond with the dog in that YOU are its only source of complete happiness and reward, they dont "self reward" with other dogs or other people and items in a house etc. It allows you to control the dogs energy level, the dog comes out of the kennel HIGH drive or "Hot" as we call it, completely jazzed and ready to do ANYTHING, and then they go back. Where if the dog lives in the house and is constantly interacting with you, and constantly having mental and physical stimulation, you bring them to the training field and the dog doesnt have an energy spike, they stay the same, so you dont get as much of a desire from the dog which makes training a three phase sport (and most times you train all three in one day) exhausting because you have to do ten times the work to motivate your dog to do all these things youre asking of it, AND ask it to be a certain way at home...the dog doesnt have a "break".

Now, i know a handful of people that let their dogs run together and live in the house and still do sport with them.

These people however have dogs that come on the field and could care less about the work, but do it because they are told, the obedience is not lively or energetic but "obedient" and the majority of dogs take a long time to develop into the bite work phase due to always being told not to bite or chew or chase etc in the home. These people end up with passing scores at club trials, and will very rarely compete at a higher level.

Now, there ARE the exception. I know of ONE person that has several trialing dogs of all different sports (french ring, mondio ring, PSA, schutzhund) that live in the house with her, but also have kennels outside, and do get time out together, and her dogs are insane for the work. Granted, she has Belgian Malinois that are psycho to begin with, and her one shepherd is just one of those dogs that has insane drive for the work regardless of his living situation. That is how Ollie would be.

I choose to kennel my dogs. They are happy, fed better than myself, and love to work. They are allowed to be "dogs". Things are "black and white" no grey matter.

Do they have house time? On occasion, but they hate it and usually want to be back outside within 5 minutes haha.

The above post was me, but it timed out

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posted by .envoy.
Wow - I also really enjoyed this post! Not only the pictures but what you had to say and how you explained everything in depth. I was kind of sad when the post ended! haha Good luck with the litter! I expect pictures!!

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Thank you!

Something you will notice in my posts, I will not lie about what my dogs are. I know what they are, what they aren't, and what their weaknesses are. I wouldn't falsely state anything about them or their temperament and mental capacity. The GSD world is such a hot mess right now, a lot of the dogs I see that were not bred for work and of certain lines are complete mental disasters, but the people breeding these dogs and promoting these dogs will lie to themselves and others to justify breeding such. I will not. Especially with this breed.

Thank you for being truthful about your dogs, why i asked the question is that i will be getting a young rough collie in 3 months time, her breeder having kept 2 puppies when they reach 6 months she will keepone and i am buying the other one, i hope to do agilty and obiedience with her and wanted to find out the best method of housing her.

Just realize that collies and shepherds are very different in temperament and drive. Obviously, temperaments differ from line to line as well. I'd talk to the breeder about this.

Her breeder keeps all his dogs housed in a large barn, kennels built inside, he has 26 dogs and shows them,