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 Degree
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6/19/2013 4:27:37 AM reply with quote send message to Degree Object to Post

quote
posted by Studio Dogs
just pointing out how people abuse it. no telling how long it had been since they logged in before they got the message of kudo's. Hell, I log in every once in a while to my show horse account, still I don't play like I'm a basic. third row could probably use they money that they are skipping out on...

tell me is this a wrong image to imply that I am a mentor?



What? That award is extremely new to the site anyway. I don't quite see your point.

Either way, I'm going to stop posting about this nonsense in Bosku's board since this has nothing to do with the issue at have and your groveling about a 10 year graphic is making zero sense.
 GaylanStudio9
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6/19/2013 12:15:29 PM reply with quote send message to GaylanStudio9 Object to Post

Ok, the percentages I suggested are negotiable but personally I think the "politicalness" of judging is somewhat exaggerated in the game. I haven't shown RL for a while but sitting on the sidelines and watching, regardless of the breed, I was not often all that out of sync with the judges actual selections.

There are approximately 80 shows per month (2 or 3 times 30 days is 60 to 90). 25% means about 20 shows per month no handlers, therefore less than 1 show per day. If you think that's too many, make it 20% or 16 shows. It's just a number to make sure that everyone's preferences are addressed equally.

The problem with the old way was that in a number of breeds where there was not a great difference in quality, the first one to enter got the best handlers and won the most. In many cases it helped to be in the right global time zone.

The main strategy should be the dog, not being fast with the entries. The "not political at all" judge permits the most strategic opportunity to pick handlers. I'd like to see more of them and also more variety in the judges favourites list (the same combinations seem to appear in several judge's lists).

(I know I tend to ignore the other elements to judge selection. I don't know if I'm alone in this. I'm sure I could do better if I tried. This is kind of irrelevant to the rest of this post, but anyway . . .)

Ultimately, my tendency is that the judge selection is being misused and either needs reworking or elimination, and I'd be fine with that. To his credit, if my memory serve me well, I believe Admin was reluctant to add it in the first place. I pretty much knew that I'd never be able to afford it. I just didn't think that that many others would be able too.
 griffin
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6/21/2013 6:21:11 AM reply with quote send message to griffin Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

quote
posted by GaylanStudio9

The problem with the old way was that in a number of breeds where there was not a great difference in quality, the first one to enter got the best handlers and won the most. In many cases it helped to be in the right global time zone.

There are a number of ways that has been addressed now.
Shows do not all appear at the same time
The influence of handers has been repeatedly reduced
The excessive handler charge.
The varying "political-ness" of judges

Randomizing the judge for each show would not change any of those except the "political-ness" of judges. Also I think the proportion of judges which are supposed to be no-handler is ~20-25% anyway so just having a random judge would mean roughly that percent of shows would be no-handler I don't think an additional level of control is necessary.

quote
posted by GaylanStudio9

I'd like to see more of them and also more variety in the judges favourites list (the same combinations seem to appear in several judge's lists).

That is not possible based on the way judge-handler preferences work. I believe the way it works is: each handler is assigned a "personality" at random inbetween 0 and 1. Each judge is then assigned a "preference" value also at random between 0 and 1. The handler preferences are then determined by calculating the difference between the judge's "preference" value and "personality" value of each handler. This is probably the most computationally effecient system and to get more variety of judges favourites would require completely redesigning it.

quote
posted by GaylanStudio9

Ultimately, my tendency is that the judge selection is being misused and either needs reworking or elimination, and I'd be fine with that. To his credit, if my memory serve me well, I believe Admin was reluctant to add it in the first place. I pretty much knew that I'd never be able to afford it. I just didn't think that that many others would be able too.

I agree, I though the financial cost of judge selection would be enough to curtail its usage, I'm very surprised at how often it is being used.

grif,
 Sheoques Blue Manchester
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6/21/2013 8:59:34 PM reply with quote send message to Sheoques Blue Manchester Object to Post

I would also suggest having Show Sponsoring impact your Prestige.
 Soundtrack
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6/22/2013 7:26:52 AM reply with quote send message to Soundtrack Object to Post

I really like the idea in the first post. And I think not only would it increase entries, it would minimize the impact of the "no handler" shows and allow more different people to win.

First of all, right now it's only worth it to me to enter one show - the largest one. This is usually a "no handler" show. However, if there were a chance at a decent payout in the other shows, I would be willing to enter those other shows and go to the effort of picking handlers. If more people are entering the handler shows, then more people will be having to use strategy to pick handlers and to decide which dogs to enter under which judges, like we did in the beginning. More entries means more people can sponsor shows. More dogs being shown means more sessioning, more active economy.
 TriStar Kennels
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6/22/2013 8:37:25 PM reply with quote send message to TriStar Kennels Object to Post

I agree with Soundtrack above, we need to stimulate the SD economy. If selling puppies, stud fees and show payouts are the main ways to make money and move the economy on the game, there needs to be more activity, more show payouts, more options for adding extra payouts, etc. and more incentives to get people to show more dogs in more shows. Incentives for finishing dogs, GCh. Dogs, etc.

If people can make decent money showing there would be more money to spend on puppies and outside studs, I think it's all a big cycle and it always goes back to stimulating more activity within the SD community.
 FireWind
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6/22/2013 11:41:18 PM reply with quote send message to FireWind Object to Post

I totally agree, been playing for 8 yrs. its changed a lot.
 Soundtrack
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6/23/2013 6:48:33 AM reply with quote send message to Soundtrack Object to Post

I also think it would increase participation in the less popular breeds. As things stand right now, as soon as I've improved my financial situation enough to buy dogs I plan on switching to a *more* popular breed simply because of the higher payouts. If I could get a decent return showing a "breed in need" I'd probably go there instead. And I'd love to be able to go back to my RL breed - I switched to the ones I have because they got group placements (although not so much under the no handler judges, another reason I'd like to switch breeds) and Bassets almost never do.
 Guiding Senjis
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6/23/2013 5:43:34 PM reply with quote send message to Guiding Senjis Object to Post

At currently -6 thousand it takes a while to reverse and return to the black, but I will get there, right now focused on breeding up as its not an option to show. My breed of choice is one that also does not get group placings.
 Shybade
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6/24/2013 8:56:29 AM reply with quote send message to Shybade Object to Post

I've been playing since 2006- took a year or so off and came back several months ago. I originally came back to finish my goal of getting one homebred champion in each breed, then stumbled on to Bearded Collies and realized there was only 1 active kennel and they had all up for sale-I got what I could and began breeding. But, for the most part in this breed, I am literally playing against myself. There are a couple other kennels who are trying to help the breed, but due to kennel space and finances they cannot breed/show much. Just found out this morning that the breed is losing another breeder too...

Anyway, I am giving up on my goal of one homebred in each breed because I believe it is currently impossible. In so many of the breeds, there just isn't the competition to get majors. I had an English Toy Spaniel (Just FH her today) that had 11 points, all singles- no competition. She had even gotten Best In Specialty Show... but there was only 1 other entry. So unless I want to breed numerous litters per breed and session enough dogs to make a major and stack shows with my own dogs to get a homebred in each breed, it's just not going to happen.

About a month ago I was honestly considering giving up the game again- The thrill of seeing the show results isn't there anymore since all I'm really doing is beating my own dogs.

Financially my kennel isn't that well off anymore either. Back in the day I had 10-15k at all times. Since I've been back I don't think I've hit the 2k mark. But, I'm not going to pay for a subscription and just let the kennel sit with few or no dogs and not session/show so I can keep money in it either.
 NorthDahl
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6/24/2013 1:08:33 PM reply with quote send message to NorthDahl Object to Post

I have only been playing for about a year and a half and even in that time it's changed drastically around here. I, too, recently noticed that show entries are rarely making it even close to 1000 entries.

Last year, I was breeding and showing Labs identically to the way I am now, and my balance easily stayed in the 5 digits. Today, I consider myself lucky to keep a $2,000 balance. It's quite terrifying to begin so successfully and fall to such a low level.

Many of you are correct, the more I attempt to show my dogs, the quicker the drain on my balance. Well, if it comes to a point where I cannot afford to even show my dogs, then what is the point of my being here on SD?? It's called SHOWdogs for crying out loud!

I recently (like within the week) resuscitated my rare breed account because I saw another breed I love end up back on the RB list. But I am already fearing that there will be no way for my account to succeed. I can't even buy dogs right now. There are none for sale!

I left SD for a number of months over the winter. I just got bored. I paid to keep it active, but didn't even log in every day. Nobody was buying my puppies, my dogs were never gaining points in shows. If it continues on this path, I will probably leave the game for good. sad :(
 Boksu
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6/24/2013 2:19:44 PM reply with quote send message to Boksu Object to Post

Thank you everyone for your replies. Sorry I haven't replied before, been too busy with work recently.
Just for the record: Tomorrow's show entries for all breed shows at the moment are 317 - 147 - 236 - 276.
Some entries will still come but this is quite sad. There isn't even 1000 dogs in all those shows counted together.

I would really like an input from the admin - what does he think, and are the payouts mentioned above reasonable?

I personally enter my dogs to the judges that I think would like them the most, not based on who likes the handlers and who doesn't. So I don't really have an opinion about this are we able to choose the judge or not-issue, I don't mind either way. But it is an interesting addition to the conversation!
 admin
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6/25/2013 3:54:49 PM reply with quote send message to admin Object to Post

It's not that I've ignored it, it's that I'm going to get the new layout launched first. Hopefully that will be done very soon.
 TriStar Kennels
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6/25/2013 8:18:28 PM reply with quote send message to TriStar Kennels Object to Post

Thanks for the reply Jeff, I think most of us knew you were busy with the new layout and would answer this thread soon enough.

I'm looking forward to your replies as I think there are some very good ideas in here that would benefit SD greatly particularly when it comes to upping participation and enjoyment on the site.
 Marquetry
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6/25/2013 10:33:55 PM reply with quote send message to Marquetry Object to Post

Showing doesn't pay anymore unless you're getting really high placements. (Like BIS). And for a number of reasons, that's VERY difficult to do anymore.

I've got two top 100 kennels both on the verge of shutdown bankruptcy. So I may not have any choice but to shut things down for awhile.

So will I renew under those conditions? Maybe, maybe not.
 Figs Dreams
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6/26/2013 4:40:18 PM reply with quote send message to Figs Dreams Object to Post

Totally agree! If people started earning money rather than losing money from showing, there'd be a lot more entries. In addition, there would be more show sponsors as the sponsor would actually earn money. No one wants to sponsor shows now because they get nothing out of it. I sponsored a show which cost me $1800 in the hopes that I would earn some extra cash, but even with my show topping the entries of other shows held the same day, I wasn't even near to getting back the money I just spent, nevermind interest. I wasn't hoping for a great deal of cash from it, but $100-200 would have done me just fine. In all, more people would show dogs if they were getting something out of it, therefore there would be more shows and ultimately more competition which makes the game interesting.
 Featherrun
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6/26/2013 9:46:45 PM reply with quote send message to Featherrun Object to Post

My breeds are starving for competition too. My main focus for 7+ years has been improving the breed. Occasional group wins and placements have never been a way to earn money, only puppy sales from breeding the highest SOP/quality dogs. And, with less people involved, it is really, really hard to stay in the black with just puppy sales.
My first choice for judges is where the competition is, followed by non-political judges, followed by judges who might like my dogs' type if I have enough competition to throw them in. Most dogs are finished by 30 days and then out to breeding because that is all I can afford.
I really like these ideas for breathing some fresh air into the game. Perhaps another one to add money to the economy could be that when a kennel gets to a balance of say, 5000.00, that they are required to sponsor a show and give back?

And how on earth does one "buy" judges???
 Degree
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6/27/2013 1:37:27 AM reply with quote send message to Degree Object to Post

How does one buy a judge?

old.showdog.com/shows/Newshows/add_a_show_to_the_schedule.aspx?option=AllBreed

See Show Judge section and fees.
 rhondacline
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7/4/2013 9:18:02 AM reply with quote send message to rhondacline Object to Post

Thinking about the topic this morning and I think the way to increase participation AND the number of players in the game is to allow basic players more game play.

The way things are right now it is very difficult to play/enjoy the game as a basic player past the first month. I think it would be nice to consider ways to allow basic users to become every day, long term players. (IE allow 3 breedings per month, a limit of 5-10 dogs, allow to sponsor X shows, show payouts, etc).

In all honesty SD is the only Sim game that I play that doesn't offer "basic" players the same game as paid players. In other games you pay for advantages and perks, not the ability to play.

Just thinking out loud.
Rhonda
 
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7/4/2013 10:21:32 PM reply with quote send message to Object to Post edit post

More for Basics? Well, I tend to be a "generous" person with respect to Basics but I really think that the game for Basic(free) accounts is actually pretty good here.

There may be some room - a few extra dogs and maybe an increase in salary so they can support them but breeding, no.

My take on this is I pay and I breed. Breeders are not going to be buying much from other breeders simply because they are breeding their own. Puppy sales depend almost entirely on new players, players changing breeds, and Basics who can not breed their own. As a paying player, I figure a certain portion of my subscription goes to support non-paying Basics, and I'm good with that due to the potential sales and reputation boosts when a Basic finishes a good dog of my breeding. These things enhance my play. I'm not so keen on supporting Basics who are going to compete in sales and not buy my puppies because they breed their own. However, if they can keep and show more dogs, they will be buying more dogs from me and other breeders.


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Did you know?
There are about 900 breeds of sheep in the world.
Did you know?
A conformation dog show is not a comparison of one dog to another but a comparison of each dog to a judge's mental image of the ideal breed type as outlined in the individual breed's breed standard.
Did you know?
The two largest American dog shows after Westminster are the National Dog Show (which is televised on Thanksgiving Day by NBC, usually after the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade) and the AKC/Eukanuba National Championship.