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 Lights Kennels
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7/5/2013 8:08:09 PM reply with quote send message to Lights Kennels Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

No. Not only would it take away a major component in gameplay, but it would make things more divided. What would a banner-maker that doesn't really enjoy making banners (not sure there are any, and I don't think people would do this consciously, but really) do if they have a lot of real money? Their banners might go away. Why sell dogs to those who need them when you can FH them and buy the money, or pay for their food?

The game would become very easy for those who could pay, and to those who couldn't-well-they might have to just step aside. I love Shoqdog because it's one of the few games where REAL money doesn't always gets in the way and separates players. I really hope that doesn't change.

Megan happy :)

Edit: Forgot to add the doesn't!

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Last edited by Lights Kennels on 7/6/2013 12:56:18 AM
 
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7/5/2013 8:08:31 PM reply with quote send message to Object to Post edit post

quote
posted by House of Wolves Kennel
quote
posted by PPvallhunds
quote
posted by rhondacline
Instead of the ability to purchase SD money, I would prefer to see a "bonus" system implemented; bonuses awarded based on achievement.

X amount for finishing a champion - or if you prefer x amount for finishing every X champions.

X amount for a GCh or again, maybe people would prefer x amount for finishing X grand champions.

X amount for completing an obedience title
(which might also encourage more participation in obedience?)

X amount for an AOM

I like this idea, it rewards players for putting the effort in and give them extra money

My only problem with this is that the rare breeds rarely if ever have a CH these days, and it can take years for a Source Breeder to get to this stage. Yes, the Obedience titles are possible but the CH, GCH, AOM may not be.

If something could be implemented that would also fairly reward those people for their achievements then I'd totally be for this system.

Personally I don't find it rare to get a Ch in rare breeds. Hard, time consuming, costly - yes - but it's possible. If I could recoup $25 per champion I'd be happy to have that, $100 I'd be ecstatic.

As for source breeders, I would say that source breeding and not showing was that player's choice of how to play the game. The idea of these bonuses is to reward showing and hopefully enables players to recoup a little bit of the cost of sessioning, conditioning and campaigning. The kennels where I color breed tend to be the most well off financially because I'm not spending money on high priced foods and showing dogs. In those color breeding kennels I would understand and wouldn't have a problem with not being eligible for this type of bonus; because I'm not finishing champions, gchs, etc. (Kind of like I can't be mad about not winning the lottery if I didn't buy a ticket.)

Hard to get GCh and AOM - in my mind, that's the point. The bonus idea is to reward your hard work - the harder the task is to complete, the greater the reward should be. I've been playing SD since 2009 and I think I have bred 3, maybe 4 AOM winners. Maybe it's easy in some of the popular breeds, but in my breeds that's hard, time consuming, dedicated work. Does it deserve a title on the end of the dog's name? I think so? Is it worth a $500 bonus? I would say yes.

Anyway, all of this is just my personal opinion on a suggestion I made that's not even under consideration; so in the end it's probably all moot anyway. happy :)


 rhondacline
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7/5/2013 8:09:31 PM reply with quote send message to rhondacline Object to Post

and the post above was me... I timed out. Sorry.

 Circle A Havanese
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7/6/2013 4:18:28 AM reply with quote send message to Circle A Havanese Object to Post

I live off of disability due health.
Showdog is the one of the few luxuries I allow myself.

There is no way I can afford to pay for extra Showdog money. I am sure there are others that play this game who also would find it hard to buy more SD money.

I also feel that making banners as a way to make money is a very grey, shady area.
Not everyone, including myself, have the talent or resources to do so.
By no means am I condoning or bashing those that do. I just find it a great disadvantage for those that don't.

Janet
 griffin
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7/6/2013 6:38:47 AM reply with quote send message to griffin Object to Post

I would say in general NO particularly given the ability to buy judges.

But I would be in favour of the option to pay RL money to "declare bankruptcy" where the payer's debt could be wiped out - similar to an account reset - for a fee proportional to the amount of debt they have accrued. Similar to RL bankruptcies there would be a limit to how frequently you could do it (maybe like once every 6 months??).

grif,
 PPvallhunds
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7/6/2013 8:59:00 AM reply with quote send message to PPvallhunds Object to Post

this post has been edited 2 time(s)

not trying to pick you Canyon just responding to some of your comments


quote
posted by Canyon View Kennels
in my opinion it doesn't speak highly of regular players to think they'd abuse such a feature.
there will allways be people who cheat or abuse things, you often see people with more then 1 basic account who get shut down when people notice and report them, many more proberly go unnoticed. There was even a thing a while ago where a kennel was able to cross breed there low sop breed to a higher sop one to improve there quality greatly. If there wasn't people willing ot abuse things to get a better chance jeff wouldn't have to make rules in the first place.

quote
posted by Canyon View Kennels
I wouldn't want any of my kennels reset for I worked hard in the past on them and would like the opportunity to reclaim dogs.
Then make sure you manage your money properly like the majority of players do and have managed to do since the game started. You wont have any need to buy money then.


quote
posted by Canyon View Kennels
A lot of what you stated can be done by people without SD funds by "old" timers that know the in's and outs of the game and I think the new blood that have a real, true interest have bankrupted themselves by trial and error. By the time they truly understand, their bankrupt and leave and take the opportunities of more majors and new lines and dogs. With this option, they could right the ship and continue. Again, I vote yes.
Being around long has nothing to do with the ability to manage money, if people don't lurn how to play the game effectly when they join that there own fault, I was one of those players when I joined and ended up in dept and with crap dogs, I didn't complain or leave I lurnt where I wnet wrong and how to fix it.

Also yes there are kennels who don't sell/stud already however if money could be brought the amount of those types of kennel would rise so there would be no advantage for others as those type of kennels wont be buying dogs, using studs or sponsoring shows and wont allow other to use there dogs so it restricts lines.

Theres nothing against the rules to stop someone running a closed kennel so jeff could do nothing to prevent it.

quote
posted by Canyon View Kennels
Of course it is, but how many are crying bout the hypothetical negative vs. the positives?
because there are both positives and negatives to being able to buy sd money and the negatives effects could spoil the game for other players. When someone gets into dept its down to there own doing, where as if there were more closed kennels some people wouldn't be able to keep up which wouldnt be there own doing.

quote
posted by Canyon View Kennels
I'm pleased that it brings more quality dogs to infuse in my kennel and for newer users instead of sub par dogs.
people who change into closed kennels wont be putting up any dogs for you to infuse into your kennel so it would also restrict some lines.



I have no need to buy money so it wouldn't effect me at all either way and im not worried about loseing a top spot as I haven't managed to get and hold on it yet. However I can see how it could negatively effect the game for some other users and I don't see why it should when its not hard to stay out of dept. Yes there will be some positives but if something can cause problems for others and will realy only help some who have gotten themselves into dept I don't see why it should be implemented.



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Last edited by PPvallhunds on 7/6/2013 9:06:13 AM
 Creation Kennel
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7/6/2013 9:57:59 AM reply with quote send message to Creation Kennel Object to Post

I would love to seen the admin pop in and give their ideas of what they are thinking about doing. We can bicker amoungst ourselves all we want but the desicion is ultimately theirs.

Just a thought. happy :)
 Shutterfox
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7/6/2013 10:34:47 AM reply with quote send message to Shutterfox Object to Post

Creation Kennel, it more or less is up to us members. That's why Jeff put up a poll. It's a close call, but it looks as though the consensus is "No" for buying ShowDog money right now.
 Degree
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7/6/2013 10:54:57 AM reply with quote send message to Degree Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

quote
posted by Creation Kennel
I would love to seen the admin pop in and give their ideas of what they are thinking about doing. We can bicker amoungst ourselves all we want but the desicion is ultimately theirs.

Just a thought. happy :)

If it was solely up to Admin, they wouldn't have bothered to ask.

This would be a huge change to the site. This isn't a 10 character addition to the call name.

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Last edited by Degree on 7/6/2013 10:57:16 AM
 
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7/6/2013 2:38:58 PM reply with quote send message to Object to Post edit post

quote
posted by PPvallhunds
not trying to pick you Canyon just responding to some of your comments


quote
posted by Canyon View Kennels
in my opinion it doesn't speak highly of regular players to think they'd abuse such a feature.

there will allways be people who cheat or abuse things, you often see people with more then 1 basic account who get shut down when people notice and report them, many more proberly go unnoticed. There was even a thing a while ago where a kennel was able to cross breed there low sop breed to a higher sop one to improve there quality greatly. If there wasn't people willing ot abuse things to get a better chance jeff wouldn't have to make rules in the first place.

Thanks for proving my point. Cheating and getting advantage over others has gone on and will continue without this feature. I'm willing to guess a lot is because newer players are trying to get more of a bankroll to continue a kennel. I ran into a kennel in another breed account of mine a few years back that I could tell that some hijinx was going on. I contacted them and politely told them the rules against buying and selling between kennels and Jeff will see the activity and there would be repercussions. She had no idea. She had created another kennel to be able to help the other kennel to grow. She claimed she had no way to start her little kennel out on what starter money was given to pay to get quality pups that would be able to compete in the ring and in breeding. That because of the length of time it takes to session a dog to be able to compete, it zapped the excitement and fun out of the showing aspect. Full sessioned dogs were more expensive and again, with what was given to get her kennel up and going she couldn't afford it to get enough dogs to make it enjoyable. Breeding was boring because the amount of breed fee, then getting a quality pup, and begin the long sessioning cycle.
She was trying trying the shows, but because her dogs weren't full sessioned and able to fully compete, others in the breed were filling the shows she was entered in to get their points and souring the show experience.
At the point I contacted her, she was bankrupt and felt what shd was doing between the two accounts, was her only chance of helping her out. I offered to help her out and bought a couple low SOP pups that wouldn't help my kennel and was quickly sent to a loving home, to help her account. She decided to get a family account and opened a could more different breeds to try and run them differently, smarter and hopefully with cheaper studs, more competitors do the shows she entered with her under sessioned dogs wouldn't be flooded. After a couple of weeks, she wrote me to tell me she wasn't renewing her family account and would be leaving. With her new,ore popular breeds, she wasn't getting the flooding, but she wasn't getting points either and it was boring and slow for her, she wanted to fully play the game. Without more money, she felt she couldn't obtain that.

Now, is that no way the story of every player, big I suspect it's the same story a lot of new players face. They want to be a part of the game! They can't compete against the full kennels of quality dogs, no matter the breed or rarity. Many don't understand when signing up what time and money it does take, they want to play NOW! I feel with the ability of buy a few SD dollars, she may have stayed longer and with a family account, would have helped several breeds. But no go.


quote
posted by Canyon View Kennels
I wouldn't want any of my kennels reset for I worked hard in the past on them and would like the opportunity to reclaim dogs.
Then make sure you manage your money properly like the majority of players do and have managed to do since the game started. You wont have any need to buy money then.

I managed my kennels just fine, thank you for your concern. My other kennels are all in the black as far as I temember. The problem is, I either sold all my dogs off when leaving that account, or my dogs are too old or low in SOP that probably would do me no good. But I like to use older dogs to keep my lines a part any breeding. So with whatever money I do have, I would more then likely to go into the red by buying a few new dogs, began breeding. Of course I can start out small, and probably would have to, but with more money, I could do more and bring more to the whole breed community and benefit the other breeders and in the ring more quickly. Then again, I'd also like to get into breeds I was never in before.


quote
posted by Canyon View Kennels
A lot of what you stated can be done by people without SD funds by "old" timers that know the in's and outs of the game and I think the new blood that have a real, true interest have bankrupted themselves by trial and error. By the time they truly understand, their bankrupt and leave and take the opportunities of more majors and new lines and dogs. With this option, they could right the ship and continue. Again, I vote yes.

Being around long has nothing to do with the ability to manage money, if people don't lurn how to play the game effectly when they join that there own fault, I was one of those players when I joined and ended up in dept and with crap dogs, I didn't complain or leave I lurnt where I wnet wrong and how to fix it.

Also yes there are kennels who don't sell/stud already however if money could be brought the amount of those types of kennel would rise so there would be no advantage for others as those type of kennels wont be buying dogs, using studs or sponsoring shows and wont allow other to use there dogs so it restricts lines.
That's hypothetical, you can't state that as if it is a fact. There are many breeder that dominate their breeds now that already play this way, and others don't. That comes down to personal preference. I don't think they should be vilified for closing their kennels to others for whatever reason. I also don't think those who were to buy SD funds should be vilified. They're both a tool that could be utilized if/when they like.

Theres nothing against the rules to stop someone running a closed kennel so jeff could do nothing to prevent it.

Of course there isn't. Nor should there be.

quote
posted by Canyon View Kennels
Of course it is, but how many are crying bout the hypothetical negative vs. the positives?

because there are both positives and negatives to being able to buy sd money and the negatives effects could spoil the game for other players. When someone gets into dept its down to there own doing, where as if there were more closed kennels some people wouldn't be able to keep up which wouldnt be there own doing.

Wait, again, many dominate their breeds now and some have closed kennels, or put their studs and pups up for outrageous prices, do how is that any different then what we could possibly face? I am one of a small few that are on here stating the positives of what could take place, while others are crowing about the negatives. Never have I stated "this is what will happen," but rather what I see could happen. Again, I think it's premature and negligent that Jeff would make this something that could be exploited.

quote
posted by Canyon View Kennels
I'm pleased that it brings more quality dogs to infuse in my kennel and for newer users instead of sub par dogs.

people who change into closed kennels wont be putting up any dogs for you to infuse into your kennel so it would also restrict some lines.

Here we go again. You don't know that for a fact, just like I don't know that it won't happen. It's already happening, won't change and I'm dealing with it pretty well now. If you're not or haven't faved it, then that is a bone you jave to pick eith someone else. It does raise the level of competition, and a goal to strive for, and that I'd that persons strategy, just like others are stating managing their kennel is theirs. I will not villify people on how they play the game, whether it be by closing kennels, buying funds, running a source kennel. To each their own.


I have no need to buy money so it wouldn't effect me at all either way and im not worried about loseing a top spot as I haven't managed to get and hold on it yet. However I can see how it could negatively effect the game for some other users and I don't see why it should when its not hard to stay out of dept. Yes there will be some positives but if something can cause problems for others and will realy only help some who have gotten themselves into dept I don't see why it should be implemented.

To each their own. Guess I'm a person that see's a glass full rather then empty kind of person. If someone needs a little monetary help, do be it. Do I think Jeff would implement this without safe guards to stop abuse? No. Just like I think more of my fellow players that they would use it properly and not abuse it. I'm not naive enough to believe there aren't some that would, but they're the same that already have done it doing it now. If they haven't been caught, they will be. Just as I believe they would be if buying funds and exploiting it.



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Last edited by PPvallhunds on 7/6/2013 9:06:13 AM
 Canyon View Kennels
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7/6/2013 2:54:25 PM reply with quote send message to Canyon View Kennels Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

quote
posted by
quote
posted by PPvallhunds
not trying to pick you Canyon just responding to some of your comments


quote
posted by Canyon View Kennels
in my opinion it doesn't speak highly of regular players to think they'd abuse such a feature.

there will allways be people who cheat or abuse things, you often see people with more then 1 basic account who get shut down when people notice and report them, many more proberly go unnoticed. There was even a thing a while ago where a kennel was able to cross breed there low sop breed to a higher sop one to improve there quality greatly. If there wasn't people willing ot abuse things to get a better chance jeff wouldn't have to make rules in the first place.


Thanks for proving my point. Cheating and getting advantage over others has gone on and will continue without this feature. I'm willing to guess a lot is because newer players are trying to get more of a bankroll to continue a kennel. I ran into a kennel in another breed account of mine a few years back that I could tell that some hijinx was going on. I contacted them and politely told them the rules against buying and selling between kennels and Jeff will see the activity and there would be repercussions. She had no idea. She had created another kennel to be able to help the other kennel to grow. She claimed she had no way to start her little kennel out on what starter money was given to pay to get quality pups that would be able to compete in the ring and in breeding. That because of the length of time it takes to session a dog to be able to compete, it zapped the excitement and fun out of the showing aspect. Full sessioned dogs were more expensive and again, with what was given to get her kennel up and going she couldn't afford it to get enough dogs to make it enjoyable. Breeding was boring because the amount of breed fee, then getting a quality pup, and begin the long sessioning cycle.
She was trying trying the shows, but because her dogs weren't full sessioned and able to fully compete, others in the breed were filling the shows she was entered in to get their points and souring the show experience.
At the point I contacted her, she was bankrupt and felt what she was doing between the two accounts, was her only chance of helping her out. I offered to help her out and bought a couple low SOP pups that wouldn't help my kennel and was quickly sent to a loving home, to help her out. She decided to get a family account and opened a few more lemmels with different breeds ran them differently, smarter and hopefully with cheaper studs, more competitors so the shows she entered with her under sessioned dogs wouldn't be flooded. After a couple of weeks, she wrote me to tell me she wasn't renewing her family account and would be leaving. With her new, more popular breeds, she wasn't getting the flooding and point grabbers, but she wasn't getting points either and it was boring and slow for her, she wanted to fully play the game. Without more money, she felt she couldn't obtain that.

Now, is that no way the story of every player, but I suspect it's the same story a lot of new players face. They want to be a part of the game! They can't compete against the full kennels of quality dogs, no matter the breed or rarity. Many don't understand when signing up what time and money it does take, they want to play NOW! I feel with the ability of buy a few SD dollars, she may have stayed longer and with a family account, would have helped several breeds. But no go.


quote
posted by Canyon View Kennels
I wouldn't want any of my kennels reset for I worked hard in the past on them and would like the opportunity to reclaim dogs.
Then make sure you manage your money properly like the majority of players do and have managed to do since the game started. You wont have any need to buy money then.

I managed my kennels just fine, thank you for your concern. My other kennels are all in the black as far as I temember. The problem is, I either sold all my dogs off when leaving that account, or my dogs are too old or low in SOP that probably would do me no good. But I like to use older dogs to keep my lines a part any breeding. So with whatever money I do have, I would more then likely to go into the red by buying a few new dogs, began breeding. Of course I can start out small, and probably would have to, but with more money, I could do more and bring more to the whole breed community and benefit the other breeders and in the ring more quickly. Then again, I'd also like to get into breeds I was never in before.


quote
posted by Canyon View Kennels
A lot of what you stated can be done by people without SD funds by "old" timers that know the in's and outs of the game and I think the new blood that have a real, true interest have bankrupted themselves by trial and error. By the time they truly understand, their bankrupt and leave and take the opportunities of more majors and new lines and dogs. With this option, they could right the ship and continue. Again, I vote yes.

Being around long has nothing to do with the ability to manage money, if people don't lurn how to play the game effectly when they join that there own fault, I was one of those players when I joined and ended up in dept and with crap dogs, I didn't complain or leave I lurnt where I wnet wrong and how to fix it.

Also yes there are kennels who don't sell/stud already however if money could be brought the amount of those types of kennel would rise so there would be no advantage for others as those type of kennels wont be buying dogs, using studs or sponsoring shows and wont allow other to use there dogs so it restricts lines.

That's hypothetical, you can't state that as if it is a fact. Kist like I can't say it won't. There are many breeder that dominate their breeds now that already play this way, and others don't. That comes down to personal preference. I don't think they should be vilified for closing their kennels to others for whatever reason. I also don't think those who were to buy SD funds should be vilified. They're both a tool that could be utilized if/when they like.

Theres nothing against the rules to stop someone running a closed kennel so jeff could do nothing to prevent it.

Of course there isn't. Nor should there be.

quote
posted by Canyon View Kennels
Of course it is, but how many are crying bout the hypothetical negative vs. the positives?

because there are both positives and negatives to being able to buy sd money and the negatives effects could spoil the game for other players. When someone gets into dept its down to there own doing, where as if there were more closed kennels some people wouldn't be able to keep up which wouldnt be there own doing.

Wait, again, many dominate their breeds now and some have closed kennels, or put their studs and pups up for outrageous prices, so how is that any different then what we could possibly face? I am one of a small few that are on here stating the positives of what could take place, while others are crowing about the negatives. Never have I stated "this is what will happen," but rather what I see could happen. Again, I think it's premature and negligent to think that Jeff would make this something that could be exploited.

quote
posted by Canyon View Kennels
I'm pleased that it brings more quality dogs to infuse in my kennel and for newer users instead of sub par dogs.

people who change into closed kennels wont be putting up any dogs for you to infuse into your kennel so it would also restrict some lines.

Here we go again. You don't know that for a fact, just like I don't know that it won't happen. It's already happening, won't change and I'm dealing with it pretty well now. If you're not or haven't faced it, then that is a bone you have to pick with someone else. It does raise the level of competition, and a goal to strive for, and that is that persons strategy, just like others are stating managing their kennel is theirs. I will not villify people on how they play the game, whether it be by closing kennels, buying funds, running a source kennel. To each their own.


I have no need to buy money so it wouldn't effect me at all either way and im not worried about loseing a top spot as I haven't managed to get and hold on it yet. However I can see how it could negatively effect the game for some other users and I don't see why it should when its not hard to stay out of dept. Yes there will be some positives but if something can cause problems for others and will realy only help some who have gotten themselves into dept I don't see why it should be implemented.

To each their own. Guess I'm a person that see's a glass full rather then empty kind of person. If someone needs a little monetary help, so be it. Do I think Jeff would implement this without safe guards to stop abuse? No. Just like I think more of my fellow players that they would use it properly and not abuse it. I'm not naive enough to believe there aren't some that would, but they're the same that already have done it or are doing it now. If they haven't been caught, they will be. Just as I believe they would be if buying funds and exploiting it.


Timed out above and corrected spelling errors.

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Last edited by Canyon View Kennels on 7/6/2013 3:19:49 PM
 Canyon View Kennels
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7/6/2013 2:55:55 PM reply with quote send message to Canyon View Kennels Object to Post

No Message.
 Everkai
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7/6/2013 5:13:18 PM reply with quote send message to Everkai Object to Post

Canyon, all your posts make me laugh a little bit...

I'm a bit done on this thread, Creation was right, Jeff, in the end, will make his choice. He was getting an opinion.
 Canyon View Kennels
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7/6/2013 5:24:30 PM reply with quote send message to Canyon View Kennels Object to Post

quote
posted by Everkai
Canyon, all your posts make me laugh a little bit...

I'm a bit done on this thread, Creation was right, Jeff, in the end, will make his choice. He was getting an opinion.

I can say the same of yours. Happy I can amuse you!
You're correct, Jeff is looking for opinions, and I have given mine. If it's enacted, guess I can look forward to seeing how horrible it is, and save my money, correct?

Have a great day!
 Everkai
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7/7/2013 7:10:28 PM reply with quote send message to Everkai Object to Post

quote
posted by Canyon View Kennels
quote
posted by Everkai
Canyon, all your posts make me laugh a little bit...

I'm a bit done on this thread, Creation was right, Jeff, in the end, will make his choice. He was getting an opinion.

I can say the same of yours. Happy I can amuse you!
You're correct, Jeff is looking for opinions, and I have given mine. If it's enacted, guess I can look forward to seeing how horrible it is, and save my money, correct?

Have a great day!

wink ;)
 Airyah
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7/8/2013 7:56:18 AM reply with quote send message to Airyah Object to Post

I think too much people are focusing on the negatives of being able to buy showdog money with real money as opposed to the positives..


 Degree
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7/8/2013 9:03:21 AM reply with quote send message to Degree Object to Post

quote
posted by Airyah
I think too much people are focusing on the negatives of being able to buy showdog money with real money as opposed to the positives..



Because the negatives here outweigh the positives. Again, this would seriously effect gameplay and needs to be throughly reviewed.
 Everkai
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7/8/2013 9:56:33 AM reply with quote send message to Everkai Object to Post

quote
posted by Airyah
I think too much people are focusing on the negatives of being able to buy showdog money with real money as opposed to the positives..



Can someone post a post that lists all the negatives and positives? Degree? Lilliput?

Maybe the ones who want it are focusing to much on the positives rather than the negatives...Degree is right. The negatives, in the end, outweigh by a lot.
 Arial Eve
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7/8/2013 11:50:53 AM reply with quote send message to Arial Eve Object to Post

The greatest positive in this thread is that Jeff even asked for opinions. As the owner of the game, he could choose to offer game play money as a business decision. As it is now, a player can buy more kennels or buy more kennel runs.

Jeff could choose to reconfigure his business model away from a monthly subscription towards a model whereby you pay for so much salary per kennel.

We all play lots of games where you can 'buy' into the game to get advantages. I bet none of us have been asked an opinion on it.

Bottom line is that some would like and some won't. Jeff will make the best business decision for his business.


JMO

K
 Degree
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7/8/2013 3:40:56 PM reply with quote send message to Degree Object to Post

Everkai, I would, but that wouldn't create unanimity. I've played this game for seven years in three kennels and dissention has always been a constant.

As Arial Eve and a few others have stated, it's Admin's decision. But so long as I have a voice, I'll use it.
(By the way, how does having 10 accounts and 50 dogs in a kennel help one financially? That's what we are discussing here.)

I am quite enlightened by the financial plight of a lot of players. With safeguards, this could work. But as the game stands, I just don't know.

Whatever happens, happens. I'll be over here working on perfecting heads and hindquarters in my breed regardless happy :)

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Did you know?
The figure 8 exercise requires the team to heel in a figure 8 pattern either on or off leash. Generally two of the ring stewards will assist the judge with this exercise by acting as "posts", standing 8 feet apart, that the team walks around to form the loops of the figure 8.