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Author Topic : Grooming in the show ring
 Beach Dunes
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10/21/2013 8:15:46 PM reply with quote send message to Beach Dunes Object to Post  

I don't know too much about the grooming restrictions in the show ring but I think that you're not able to use hair sprays and things of the sort to help the dogs coat so if I try not to do that assuming it's against the rules how do I make it so my dog's coat is as nice as all the other dogs coats. Because with Coal my standard poodle if I brush him and bathe him he looks perfect and dense for about 20 minutes until he starts running around. In the show ring would I be faulted for this his coat not being as nice as other dogs even though he's all natural and followimg the rules?


On this subject, what exactly are the rules as far as artifical grooming help in the show ring ( hairspray, chalk, extensions, ect)


Any responses would be greatly appreciated! (:

-Hayley
 Tizzy Too
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10/21/2013 8:25:44 PM reply with quote send message to Tizzy Too Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

What country are you in ... US and Canada absolutely anything goes and although I've never actually seen extensions, I'm sure they are out there!! happy :)


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Last edited by Tizzy Too on 10/21/2013 8:26:43 PM
 Beach Dunes
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10/21/2013 8:51:31 PM reply with quote send message to Beach Dunes Object to Post

quote
posted by Tizzy Too
What country are you in ... US and Canada absolutely anything goes and although I've never actually seen extensions, I'm sure they are out there!! happy :)


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Last edited by Tizzy Too on 10/21/2013 8:26:43 PM

Im in the US. I didnt know that! I thought it was against the rules. Thats weird that is isnt though. And I know poodles have things called wiggies that are basically fake topknot hair. Another reason im obsessed with keeping my pups topknot uncut (;
 Ambrosia_Cocker
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10/21/2013 9:06:49 PM reply with quote send message to Ambrosia_Cocker Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

Yes I agree almost anything goes at the shows I attend.. Hair spray is even carried ring side for the poodles I've watched.. I have never saw a dog disqualified for a foreign substance.. Although I'm sure it has happened to Someone in the past.. Jmho

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Last edited by Ambrosia_Cocker on 10/21/2013 9:07:53 PM
 MissQ
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10/21/2013 10:36:39 PM reply with quote send message to MissQ Object to Post

According to Canadian Kennel Club regulations:
9.11 No person shall exhibit or handle a dog if:
(a) its coat or skin has been changed by the use of
dye, chalk or other substance;
(b) a foreign substance is present in its coat;
(c) it is under the influence of a drug or other substance.

I've seen this rule abused repeatedly, and so few judged who would enforce it.
 MissQ
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10/21/2013 10:47:44 PM reply with quote send message to MissQ Object to Post

I've never shown AKC so I don't know how well its enforced, but all I could find in the rules regarding foreign substances in the coat was:

SECTION 8-C. No dog shall be eligible to compete
at any show and no dog shall receive any award at any
show in the event the natural color or shade of natural
color or the natural markings of the dog have been altered
or changed by the use of any substance whether such
substance may have been used for cleaning purposes or
for any other reason. Such cleaning substances are to be
removed before the dog enters the ring.
If in the judge’s opinion any substance has been used
to alter or change the natural color or shade of natural
color or natural markings of a dog, then in such event the
judge shall withhold any and all awards from such dog,
and the judge shall make a note in the judge’s book giving
his reason for withholding such award. The handler or the
owner, or both, of any dog or dogs from which any award
has been withheld for violation of this section of the rules,
or any judge who shall fail to perform his duties under this
section, shall be subject to disciplinary action.
 Lilliput
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10/22/2013 2:22:17 AM reply with quote send message to Lilliput Object to Post

It also depends on if you are doing AKC or UKC. I believe UKC is pretty strict about NOT allowing any sort of chalk, coloring, sprays, etc on dogs, whether applied in the ring or during grooming.
 Everdale Goldens
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10/22/2013 5:38:59 AM reply with quote send message to Everdale Goldens Object to Post

The AKC does not enforce the rule of using grooming products. UKC DOES enforce this rule and you cannot chalk, dye, or use hair spray at all! You will be DQ'ed. Also in UKC you cannot take a brush or comb into the ring.
 Shadowstorm Kennels II
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10/22/2013 7:06:59 AM reply with quote send message to Shadowstorm Kennels II Object to Post

If the AKC doesn't enforce, then why still have the rule? It doesn't quite make any sense to have a rule if its constantly being broken. Might as well remove it?

I'm curious about this topic..
 Slipping Shadows
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10/22/2013 7:13:42 AM reply with quote send message to Slipping Shadows Object to Post

I may get torn apart for this, but that's one thing I really like about UKC. I'm sure a few do it and get away with it, but how accurately are dogs being represented if they need to be loaded with volumizers, hair spray, chalk, etc? Personally, I wish the AKC would crack down on it, but I'm sure it won't happen. I have a lot of friends on the outside world who see us as the moms in "Toddlers and Tiaras." And with all of the anti-breeder groups and legislation trying to be passed, I think as exhibitors we need to be more conscious of how we appear to the public, but that is just my opinion happy :) So I would say kudos to you for trying to keep him natural!
 Ambrosia_Cocker
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10/22/2013 8:39:43 AM reply with quote send message to Ambrosia_Cocker Object to Post

I agree AKC should crack down.. I also saw people dying dogs right on the show site.. UKC appeals to me very much exactly for this reason as well as no handlers.. But we have very few shows around my area
 Estrella Kennel
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10/22/2013 8:51:49 AM reply with quote send message to Estrella Kennel Object to Post

As harsh as this may seem, you don't stand a chance in **** in the AKC poodle ring WITHOUT substances. Poodle grooming is SO specific, taking DECADES to perfect, and its a breed where SO MUCH can be hidden/ "fixed" with "proper" grooming. Hairspray is just the tip of the iceburg. Like you said, there are wiggies (which you will see being put in if you walk past almost any "big" poodle person's set up before ring time, and being taken out after). Many black dogs have the clipped areas dyed (they tend to turn silver after being clipped, this keeps the black really black), and some dogs have their entire coats dyed to really maintain the jet black color.

JMHO
 Estrella Kennel
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10/22/2013 8:52:31 AM reply with quote send message to Estrella Kennel Object to Post

^^ is also the reason, despite the fact I do like standard poodles, I could never own/show them....Ill stick to my breed that is actually presented naturally happy :)
 Slipping Shadows
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10/22/2013 4:44:39 PM reply with quote send message to Slipping Shadows Object to Post

Same here! I love standards, but could never show one considering the grooming practices.
 Zahir
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10/22/2013 7:00:09 PM reply with quote send message to Zahir Object to Post

Yes, in AKC you are NOT supposed to use hairsprays, chalk, etc. Unfortunately, it is done. I have no knowledge of poodle grooming secrets, but if you want to succeed in your breed, regardless of the breed, I would suggest asking someone to mentor you and show you all the ins and outs of grooming. Having an experienced person guide you can make all the difference in the world!
 PPvallhunds
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10/23/2013 6:05:29 AM reply with quote send message to PPvallhunds Object to Post

Completely agree Slipping Shadows, over here in the UK it's against the rules to have anything in the coat that aulters it's natural texture or colour, but often just a quick walk past the poodle benches leaves people coughing for all the hair sprays.
I know they have been doing coat testing at some shows at one point to crack down on it, which of course the breeds that cover there dogs in products complained and kicked up a fuss.

Dogs should be shown natural, it's not a styling competition after all.
 Slipping Shadows
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10/23/2013 8:11:43 AM reply with quote send message to Slipping Shadows Object to Post

quote
posted by PPvallhunds

Dogs should be shown natural, it's not a styling competition after all.

EXACTLY. They should judge the DOGS, not the groomer wink ;)
 Dandy Dandies
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10/23/2013 8:29:19 PM reply with quote send message to Dandy Dandies Object to Post

this post has been edited 2 time(s)

Unfortunately, "when in Rome" sad :(. At a recent show our "natural" dogs were beat by a dog painted up like a tart ... bright orange and white but was groomed by a handler so many of the owner/handlers followed suit the next day just to be competitive. Nowhere in our breed standard is there a recognized colour orange and white ...

edited to include: this was an AKC show


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Last edited by Dandy Dandies on 10/23/2013 8:30:36 PM

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Last edited by Dandy Dandies on 10/23/2013 8:34:49 PM
 Grayvuren
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10/24/2013 5:08:41 PM reply with quote send message to Grayvuren Object to Post

I have seen it all. From dirty urine stained dogs to ones that have been groomed to the hilt. And this has been in both UKC and AKC rings.

I do not care for over groomed dogs, but I will take them over dirty smelly dogs any day.

I like the dogs to be be clean, neatly presented and the white parts white !-) But I do not like to see dog walk away in cloud of chalk. Or to see dogs that are not a "natural" color.

Grooming should neaten and enhance your dog and not overwhelm it.
 Navar Poodles
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10/24/2013 6:58:26 PM reply with quote send message to Navar Poodles Object to Post

Many years ago when I was showing and grooming mini poodles for the akc ring only one judge told us before letting any of the mini poodle classes start that if we brought any poodle before her that had a top knot sprayed up we would be excused. You have never seen so many people scramble to safely comb out hair spray ring side as that day. On the other hand I was going around the ring at the PCA national specialty in the novice bitch class when the young bitch in front of me shook and her hair piece popped lose sticking up about 2" from the rest of her top knot. Her handler never missed at beat and snatched it right out of her head and stuffed it in her pocket at a trot. I can't remember if she placed. But I just remember thinking what a cool head that lady had.
 Dandy Dandies
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10/24/2013 11:49:16 PM reply with quote send message to Dandy Dandies Object to Post

Grayvuren, I don't think the issue the OP was addressing here was whether on not to present a "dirty" or ungroomed dog to the judges, but rather how much "product" is acceptable in the ring.

I have also been at a show where a Westie was excused by a Japanese judge because when she patted his back when he was on the table, a cloud of chalk dust rose into the air ... we (the "purists"wink ;) were SOOO pleased happy :)

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