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Author Topic : Why all the hate towards white boxers?
 Sierra R Kennel
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10/26/2013 10:13:26 PM reply with quote send message to Sierra R Kennel Object to Post  

Seriously its getting old seeing the posts about how white boxers are bad and shouldn't be able to be shown or bred in order to make the game more life like. I understand and accept that there are people out there that dislike the whites...but really, its not so hard to prevent whites from popping up in the litters. And in all honesty I don't think it would bug me so much if it wasn't just the boxers being targeted....I've NEVER saw someone complain about the other breeds with disqualified colors being shown.

point in case, *and no offense to the dane people I swear*
www.showdog.com/dog.aspx?id=12627020
BIS winner, yet it states LEATHAL White Harlequin. Leathal mind you, in rl the white boxers are not leathel, may suffer deafness yes..but not leathal, yet there is no angry mob with pitchforks complaining that they not be shown.

also as stated repeatedly over and over by those who defend the colors, if this game was more rl we would not have 10 litters due at a time, nor have 30+ dogs in our kennels.

Sorry but I like the whites, I STRIVE to produce whites. The #1 boxer this month is a white I own, who happens to be a multi BISS winner and last months National Specialty winner. Since he's been showing I've noticed a lot of the complaining about whites. I'm about convinced in a way its sour grapes about his success due to his color and its getting on my nerves.

ok...Rant over, I shall go back to being nice once again and gritting my teeth when I see whites negatively mentioned.

Becky
 Summerwind Kennels
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10/26/2013 10:21:29 PM reply with quote send message to Summerwind Kennels Object to Post

I whole heartedly agree with the above. Stop picking on our boxers, or at least pick on all the breeds equally.

I am the breeder of the dog mentioned above, won of the winningest boxers of late and am very proud of him and his owner for doing so well.

It's seems like every other day someone is going off on white boxers... If you don't like them don't have them but let those who do enjoy them do so without fear of persecution. Remember it's a game... Not RL.

What I find the worst is those who don't want white boxers alllowed but who breed litters that will contain whites, it's just hypocritical.

Stepping down off my soapbox now. Going back to being peaceful...



 linlin23
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10/26/2013 11:01:34 PM reply with quote send message to linlin23 Object to Post

At the moment I'm a classic BYB. I'm breeding low quality dachshunds only for colors. Half the reason I keep breeding Newfies is because puppy sales are good.

I churn out litter after litter, culling the weak ones.

I'm a regular BYB, maybe even a puppy miller.

Like, why does nobody complain that we can be breeding 10 different dogs at the same time?

Or that we can make unwanted dogs disappear?

And yet, white boxers keep drawing criticism. I'm with you. Besides, don't like *all* white dogs have issues related to the color? I know that the Dogo Argentino and Dalmatian have issues with deafness because of the color.

If we were to ban white boxers for defects, why not ban dalmatians because they're so frequently deaf?

Perspective, people.
 Lilliput
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10/27/2013 12:15:45 AM reply with quote send message to Lilliput Object to Post

quote
posted by Sierra R Kennel
And in all honesty I don't think it would bug me so much if it wasn't just the boxers being targeted....I've NEVER saw someone complain about the other breeds with disqualified colors being shown.

Becky

So I agree with you on the white boxer point, but you're wrong that boxers are the only breed or color targeted. I've seen quite a few threads, even more than threads on boxers, about breeding for the double merle coloring (or it's correspondence, double dapple, in Doxies)

Your point about Danes, by the way, is a bit off point. In RL those Lethal white Danes are NEVER BORN. They're absorbed by the mother because they are incompatible with life, and those litters are then correspondingly smaller because of it. Jeff could not code that into the game though, and the combo had to be labeled something, even though it doesn't actually exist in RL.
 Lilliput
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10/27/2013 12:23:30 AM reply with quote send message to Lilliput Object to Post

quote
posted by linlin23
Besides, don't like *all* white dogs have issues related to the color? I know that the Dogo Argentino and Dalmatian have issues with deafness because of the color.

This is NOT true. It depends on the breed and type of white. White Shepherds, for instance, are NOT known to have hearing issues. There are many white breeds that are not affected- komondorok, pulik, westies, Great Pyrenees, Samoyed, Husky, etc.
 linlin23
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10/27/2013 1:20:23 AM reply with quote send message to linlin23 Object to Post

quote
posted by Lilliput
quote
posted by linlin23
Besides, don't like *all* white dogs have issues related to the color? I know that the Dogo Argentino and Dalmatian have issues with deafness because of the color.

This is NOT true. It depends on the breed and type of white. White Shepherds, for instance, are NOT known to have hearing issues. There are many white breeds that are not affected- komondorok, pulik, westies, Great Pyrenees, Samoyed, Husky, etc.

OK, I'm slooowly learning to keep my mouth shut.... wink ;)
I promise I'll get it eventually.

Genetically, what is the difference between those breeds and a Dalmatian or Dogo Argentino? What form of white would that be? Do the boxer, Dalmatian, and dogo argentino all have the same form of white, and this form of white is tied to defects? And, if I'm going to pepper you with questions, is it merely coincidence that all of the breeds you mentioned have long hair/fur, whereas the dogo, Dalmatian, and boxer have short coats?

Oh god I'm "that kid" who insists on asking questions on *everything* no matter how trivial...

I seem to be getting things wrong like, constantly, any advice for a place to learn more, rather than be a pest in forums? XD
 Boksu
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10/27/2013 2:09:55 AM reply with quote send message to Boksu Object to Post

this post has been edited 2 time(s)

quote
posted by linlin23
quote
posted by Lilliput
quote
posted by linlin23
Besides, don't like *all* white dogs have issues related to the color? I know that the Dogo Argentino and Dalmatian have issues with deafness because of the color.

This is NOT true. It depends on the breed and type of white. White Shepherds, for instance, are NOT known to have hearing issues. There are many white breeds that are not affected- komondorok, pulik, westies, Great Pyrenees, Samoyed, Husky, etc.

OK, I'm slooowly learning to keep my mouth shut.... wink ;)
I promise I'll get it eventually.

Genetically, what is the difference between those breeds and a Dalmatian or Dogo Argentino? What form of white would that be? Do the boxer, Dalmatian, and dogo argentino all have the same form of white, and this form of white is tied to defects? And, if I'm going to pepper you with questions, is it merely coincidence that all of the breeds you mentioned have long hair/fur, whereas the dogo, Dalmatian, and boxer have short coats?

Oh god I'm "that kid" who insists on asking questions on *everything* no matter how trivial...

I seem to be getting things wrong like, constantly, any advice for a place to learn more, rather than be a pest in forums? XD

Dog colour genetics are still not totally understood, so what I say now might be untrue in future.

There is 2 types of white. There is the S-locus white, or the "extreme piebald" white that we know from for example boxers, dogos, bulldogs, bull terriers and dalmatians. In this case, the cells are totally unable to produce pigments, so this white does not only affect the coat, but also makes the skin pink and pigment-free (it never tans). Somehow (to my knowledge, this mechanism is not well known), the pigmentation of the inner ear affects the development of the ear and hearing. The dogs with no pigmentation in the inner ear are more likely to be deaf, because the inner ear is not totally developed.
(and yes, the dogs that have pigment around their ears are more likely to hear normally. From that point of view, discrimination of dalmatian puppies born with pigmented patches around their ears makes no sense.)

The other white comes from the I-locus. This is more like the "extreme dilution"-white. Their colour is so faded it actually looks white. In this case, the cells are able to produce pigmentation and the skin of these dogs can get tanned, the skin can be almost black. Because this gene does not affect the pigmentation of the skin, the inner ears are normally pigmented & developed (=normal hearing).
This type of white exists in poodles, westies, pyrenees etc.
A good example of skin pigmentation in a white dog is a poodle:
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ50BZzcnu-Hl5DqzKepuLLgDeliKOKKwC9JEXJxJfsOxT1Uls


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Last edited by Boksu on 10/27/2013 2:11:29 AM

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Last edited by Boksu on 10/27/2013 2:12:13 AM
 Boksu
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10/27/2013 2:29:25 AM reply with quote send message to Boksu Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

....and my reply to the actual thread:

Personally, I don't like white boxers IRL and due to the deafness issues, I would always encourage breeders to try to avoid white in their litters. If whites are born, they should be sold to loving pet homes.
I would be strongly against starting a white boxer breed.

However, having said that, this is A GAME. These are NOT real dogs. There is NO deafness. People can finish their unborn puppies, ridgeless ridgebacks and white boxers all they want. In a game this matter is totally different.

I personally don't like white and would avoid breeding them also in the game. But if someone else has a very beautiful, very successful white boxer, I am very happy for them and they should be proud of their achievements. If someone else likes a different colours... well... So? Not everyone's favourite colour is green. The fact that they like a colour in a game, that is a DQ IRL? It does not touch my soul. I do not get punished for their actions. It doesn't make my dogs any worse. Actually, it doesn't affect me in any way.

To the people who keep complaining about DQ colours that win: Just breed better, correctly coloured dogs and beat those whites. That should solve the problem for you! wink ;)

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Last edited by Boksu on 10/27/2013 3:12:35 AM
 
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10/27/2013 9:27:48 AM reply with quote send message to Object to Post edit post

I agree with Bosku's explanation. But there is probably some things missing as well (eg. huskies have multiple white patterns as well as solid white and solid whites with even whiter white markings but no yellows but deafness pretty uncommon).

Pigments are present not just in the coat & skin. They are also found the eyes where they are used in the perception of light (which is why dark dogs are preferred in most breeds). Pigments are also found in the inner ear and the brain.

Exactly what they are doing in the ear & brain is not clear but melanin (dark pigment) interacts with many metal ions which are also involved in producing the electrical current in the nervous system. Metal ions are also kept in careful balance in the fluid in the inner ear (again why it is important is not known). There are suggestions that melanin can also influence temperament since it is striking how many domesticated animals have large white markings compared to wild ancestors.

grif,
 Prophesy
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10/27/2013 11:10:13 PM reply with quote send message to Prophesy Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

I at wanted to make a note that when I made my thread before in regards to color, I was not specifically targeting boxers. I used them as an example because it's a breed I have. As is Dobes and I am entirely against the Isabella color in those also.

I was merely making a statement about colors and how I don't support any of the faulted colors. That's my own personal opinion and to each their own of course. I have never been a color breeder and never intend to me. I'm quite sure that those who do it, enjoy it. Not knocking it.

Also, in regards to the #1 boxer this month, I can assure that I've not been jealous or at all influenced by his winnings (congrats btw), as I do not check the top charts on Boxers. I enjoy showing what I have and working with breeders to better lines.

Anyway, just wanted to add my two cents.
-Exalted

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Last edited by Prophesy on 10/27/2013 11:10:36 PM

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