.com Forum · Real Show Dogs

I have decided that I want to title my 7 year old champion golden retriever in rally and/or obedience. We have started obedience classes and here is the problem... He is very adamant in his decision to not lay down... (He does sit, heel, and we have done well with the attention games) I have tried from both a sit and standing position. I have tried using different types of treats (and found out he does not like hot dogs which is just weird). I tried luring him down, having him sit and tried to pull out his front legs, pushing his shoulders down, and tried stepping on the leash close to his color clasp and friend to wait him out (he won by the way), all with no luck. I tried a flat collar and a prong color. I spoke with the instructor and all she could tell me is to work on it at home and short of pretty much tackling him I can not get him down... Does anyone have any suggestions on teaching the down command to a large stubborn dog is much appreciated!

Try rewarding him when ever you see him in a down position on his own. When you see him in a down tell him, "Down, good down! Good boy!"

Does he possibly have some hip or back pain? I know 7 isnt elderly but in goldens they have a tendency for hip issues so it might just be that it hurts him physically. If it's not then slow in steady will win the race (or battle in the case) lol. I agree that when you see him relaxed laying down praise him when he is doing it while giving the command.

Hope this helps!

Delias Kennel

I agree with both of the above posters. Make sure he doesn't have any issues with pain and also reward him whenever you see him down.

It's been a while, but down was kind of tricky with my pointer when I was first teaching him. I remember trying something out of the "Control Unleashed" book by Leslie McDevitt...whatever chapter it was that discussed some method where the dog will eventually begin offering you various behaviors (maybe someone else knows what I'm talking about?) I used popcorn when I first taught him down (one of his FAVORITE things)...with enough pieces of popcorn and patience, he finally figured out what he was being rewarded for and began offering me "downs" for another piece. It was pretty neat when the lightbulb finally went off.

Like others have said there could be pain/discomfort lying down which could explain it. Also if the surface you are training on is very hard/slippery it could make it very difficult/uncomfortable for him to lie down.

If there is no physical reason he doesn't want to lie down them it is just a question of patience.

grif,

A couple ideas:
Try free-shaping as someone already mentioned (they were talking about a book I think) . Depending on your dogs prior shaping experience this could go very quickly OR it could take a while for him to learn what shaping is all about... if you want any help on what is/how to free shape just ask.

Rather than luring try teasing him with his favorite treat OR toy... cup the reward in your hand, show it to him and let him work to get it out of your grip (start easy at first, work up to him really needing to push and pry at your hand before you give it to him) once you can keep his attention on getting that reward from your hand simply start playing the game with your hand down at tye floor. It's easier/lazier for a dog to lay down rather than stay bent over the whole time. If he takes the bait and lays down then that instantly earns him the reward! If hes okay with not laying down while working it out of your hand thennexperiment with moving your hand back between his front paws/chest (in hopes that he will bow or lay down to block it from "escaping" underneath him) .

Or you could try the beginning steps to Crawl (as you must first lay down before you can crawl) or Bow (as thats halfway there and then you just wait for the butt to go down too) . For crawl I woupd suggest having him attempt to learn to crawl Under something ( a table, bench, tunnel, your legs, etc) so you actually get him trying to duck/go down on his own vs the freeshaping crawl method, just if he ducks/goes down then reward big time!

I had a few sessions with a well-known OTCh trainer about 10 years ago with previous dogs.

What she did, which helps also with the down-on-recall, and what has worked very well for me, was taking a handful of treats and sitting cross-legged on the floor. Toss a treat away and put a new one in your fist. Hold the fist on the floor. Dog will return and start slobbering your hand. He can't get to the treat but will start bothering it. Because it is on the floor, he will need to bend down to get at it. Eventually at least his front end will go down, and if he's insistent you can treat that (by throwing the treat) and work your way down, or you can wait for a full down.

If you have multiple dogs and one of them figures out the actual trick, you can treat that dog from your hand and then toss another treat for them both to scramble over. Once the one figures it out, the second won't be far behind (unless second is dumb. I have a dumb one and even she figured it out in about 2 sessions.)

Want to add that I have *NEVER* had good success with any of the methods your instructor describes. My dogs know when they're being forced to do something and will resent it. We also require a down at the dinner table (or you get locked out of the room) which has always helped.

-----
Last edited by residential on 4/7/2014 10:18:57 AM

Thanks everyone! We did get him checked out by the vet and it turns out that he is just stubborn. I have been working on rewarding him every time I catch him laying down and have been some what successful. I am now able to get him down with minimal effort. We are still far away from getting him to do it willingly but I am happy with the progress so far and know that we will be able to get there eventually. The saying "slow and steady wins the race" better be true! Haha

Hopefully you're making some progress-
I've also had a stubborn GWP on her down, I too, use high smelling treats and enclose them in a fist, sit cross legged on the floor with my fist on the ground in front of me, as she works at trying to get the treat, eventually she lays down. I instantly then open my hand and give her the treat. It took about 2 days with 2 sessions/day about 15 mins each before she finally got it. She still doesn't enjoy it, but will lay down now when prompted to.

I could not for the life of me to get Sophie to understand down, as part of working as a team with her I was taking a basic class, they had issue too, the one guy worked seperately with her, with treats under his bent knee and once she understood she had the versatile lightbulb moment.

Since I maintain her distraction training dancing around her down stay with a lure, throwing her tease pole and balls behind and in front of her, on walks see squirrel good girl down stay, then release for the run..

My goldy is as stubborn as van be when it comes to downing. I've accepted the fact that she'll never get an obedience titles, which is funny because she's a UKC agility champion lol

Try luring him down while standing at his side. Contrary to popular belief goldens can be quite independent minded and even dominant. I don't know if your boy is at all dominant, but I know with my girl I CANNOT down her for the life of me if I am standing in front facing her, she sees it as a challenge.