.com Forum · Alpha Dog Forum

www.showdog.com/shows/breed_results.aspx?show=second%20at%20shipyard&breed=Australian%20Cattle%20Dog

www.showdog.com/shows/breed_results.aspx?show=July+2014+Australian+Cattle+Dog+Nationals&breed=Australian+Cattle+Dog

So here are two show results, with the same judge (Scott Person) and many of the same dogs. According to Scott Person's info, "Has a tendency to use dogs handled by certain handlers but isn't overt in it. Relatively high level of breed bias. Has a tendency to like dogs the more often they're seen." So, how does a bitch that he puts 4th in Breed yesterday, WIN the National Specialty today? The dog he gave breed to yesterday goes Best Opposite at the National today, and the bitch that he gives Best Opposite to yesterday (OVER the bitch special who wins the National today) doesn't even PLACE at the National today? Sorry if this is confusing, but I am just trying to make sense of show results that seem to make NO sense at all.....

I know that in the first show, the owner showed the bitch special instead of using a handler, but still.....

Are you taking traits into consideration? From what we are shown, Play Ball has the better HQ and gait from his personal preference (high).

Also, since it was no handler, it might have an effect on the results too. Play Ball wasn't assigned a handler in the AB show either so...

edited for spelling

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Last edited by Leotyde Kennels on 7/7/2014 12:20:28 PM

It looks to me like the difference is in the handlers. He still rewarded the same dogs, but probably liked the bitch better once she was put on a level playing field.

Em

I agree with PPKesshonds. It is not at all unusual for results to change when handlers change or when handlers are taken out of the equation. A dog with no handler, under a handler judge, will almost NEVER place, even if it is the best dog in the ring. In the second show, the handler advantage is removed, and you can see how dogs more truly stack up under that judge.

This game really isn't logical then.....it likely wouldn't make THAT much of a difference under a judge who was handling a dog, if that judge liked the dog. The results shouldn't have been so vastly different, I think.

Sadly, that can be the case in real life. I know of quite a few dogs who can be completely passed over by a judge when the owner shows it, but when a handler shows it the next time under the same judge, surprise! Granted, these are not the judges I respect and look to evaluate dogs properly, but it certainly happens. In Showdog, this may be more dramatic, but the same rules apply. Even if I don't agree with it in real life and show both my own dogs and clients, there are always judges who look up at the end of the leash. That's why I always double check judge preferences

Em

Since handlers are free in SD they have a much greater impact than IRL (since all kennels can afford them). Handler judges will always put up a dog with a good handler over one without a handler regardless of the quality of the dogs (except maybe if there is a >10 SOP difference).

grif,