.com Forum · General

Ok so with the new "rule" that we cannot pick judges is great BUT we must all need to realize that handler hogging will now be EVEN WORSE that it was before...

Because of this, I ask that everyone, even people not in my breeds, please not get too too upset with each other. As I enter my dogs, I feel bad that I happen to see the shows first, so I get the good handlers... But this is something we will have to deal with as a community in ALL breeds...



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Last edited by Beach Dunes on 11/6/2014 5:29:47 PM

When did this happen? And do u have a link to the post? I can only see one from admin saying that u can no longer pick judges

I must have missed this too. I only see the judge thing, not handlers. Link?

Think you have confused the new random judges post with handlers as I've just entered my dog in a show and I can still pick what handler I wanted.

Opps, typo. Haha. That's what happens when you're running on 3 hours of sleep (;

I try to avoid always grabbing the top handlers, especially when I see a new show added. Doesn't always work (not the best memory! ) but I will pay attention more so, now.

Great reminder!

ETA: Spelling.

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Last edited by Treestand Kennel on 11/6/2014 6:40:35 PM

I agree completely. Yes, we did need an improved ratio of hander shows to non-handler shows.

However, it seems now that the system swings the other way - there are far too many handler shows. What happens then, of course, is that in smaller breeds it creates handler hogging tendencies which are unhealthy. Breeds that can only support having entries in one show per night are compromised because kennels who enter have no choice but to enter in the same show as everyone else, where handler choices are few (after the top few are taken).

In popular breeds the effect is not so bad, but over time it might be.

I do acknowledge that this is a strategy game, and that handler choosing and getting ahead are part of it. Surely, though, it is more important to retain the interest of players on here, who might be disheartened by the fact that it is impossible to even have a chance of a win, simply because they cannot find a decent handler.

In all honesty, I prefer the game's previous system. Yes, there were far more non-handler shows, but at least that increased entries and participation in shows, within smaller breeds.

Analeyn

Timed out ^

I know years ago, this was a serious issue. Thats when there was shows you could have selected months in advance. The juddge's list of handlers use to be updated monthly. Then afterwards admin change the frequency of rate in which the handlers preference were updated. So Maret Gentile who was top handler on mostly everyones list was number 1 today... And next week was number 6. So that had cut handler hogging drastically. Not sure how it goes now.

We need a better balance of non-handler judges to handler judges. I went through the judges list and unless I miscounted, there appeared to be 5 non-handler judges out of 34 judges.
It can get difficult at times to get top handlers when you live on the other side of the world ... LOL, unless you book days ahead or look for smaller shows.

I disagree. 5 out of 34 is 15% no-handler. I'd even argue that's HIGH. Just because people like no-handler better doesn't mean we need MORE of them. We switched because having them all the time was too much. With random judges, 15% should be just about right. Any higher and we'd be risking having a no handler judge 3 or 4 times a week, which would put us just about right back where we were. The current ration suggest one approximately once a week, which is WAY more often than we had back in the day, and seems like a decent compromise to me.

I've had 2 people leave one of my breeds since the update because of this. ( Will not state which one for privacy ). I will look down to shows made in 2 weeks and there are already 4 or 5 handlers taken, so I know not to waste my $5 to enter my dog who isn't going to win only because of handlers, not because of his/her quality. Since I only actively show in 2 competitive breeds, it's hard. I was always Kennel #1-#3 in those two breeds, but since then, I've dropped below 6 for both because I'm not online as much as I was, so I can't get nice handlers. And it's not that I have bad dogs either....

I'm gonna be honest, it's more of me complaining because if my dogs ever do get points, its from owner-handler judges.... That says something :/. Even before the change, I had dogs win and lose under those judges but I also had dogs win under handlers.

I have a very nice bitch that needs 1 point that I can't get because of handlers.

I don't know. I liked it the other way, and personally I didn't vote for the new system. I never even bother to enter most of my dogs anymore

But again, this is me being a little butt-hurt

I'll be honest and say that I too voted against the change as it stood. I have said right from the beginning of the debate that we needed a higher proportion of owner-judges for this to work.

I don't like the term "handler-hogging" - if I'm first to enter and I have more than one dog that I think is worthy, I'll take all the best handlers I can get - that's part of the game. I will also put filler dogs in when I can afford to do so that others get points.

The actual original complaint I believe was not really that all the shows were owner-judges but that the same 4 or 5 were there over and over. This would also have been alleviated by adding more owner-judges to pick from.

Personally, I don't think having an owner-judge show every day is necessarily a bad thing. I do think having one show with each political type would actually be ideal, however I don't think that is feasible with the current level of activity. I think we should be aiming somewhere around three shows per day. I don't know for sure but perhaps the percentage of political types should be more or less even with the random judges.

While I don't necessarily agree that it's 'fair' for someone to take all the handlers in any given show - there are additional fees for people who use more than 2 in each gender to help compensate for that.
I'll admit when I pre-enter, if I have 4 dogs eligible for handlers, I take them. I'd be stupid not to. Someone else with an equal or lesser dog would and then I'd be out those points/wins. but that's part of the game. When I don't have time to pre-enter, I still enter shows with lesser handlers hoping that I'll give the other dogs the points so they'll finish and no longer be my competition.
I could see the owner-handler percentage increasing a little bit, but to be honest I also think it is ok how it is.
You know, if you sponsor a show once in awhile, you'll be the first one to be able to enter and use handlers

I'm not sure of the math there, but if 15% of the judges are owner-biased (and they are pretty much) then 15% of the shows would get owner-judges on average. True?

If we have 1 show a day, that's 7 per week and 15% of 7 is 1.05 owner-judges per week. If we have 2 shows per day (14 shows) it's 2.10 owner-judges per week. Three shows per day (21) gives 3.15 owner-judges.

As of this moment (November 25th,about 1:00pm SD time) over the next 4 days, Nov 26th to 29th there are 13 shows and one owner-judge. And over the following 4 days (excluding the World Cup day) there are 8 shows and again, one owner-judge. There will likely be more shows added to these but I don't think we are getting anywhere near 3 or 4 owner-judges per week. Prior to this change not only did we have an owner-judge every day, but sometimes more than one.

I agree gaylanstudio, the ratio doesn't seem right. The issue here is not the fact that some kennels enter and claim the top handlers- that's just a normal component of the game strategy. The problem is the ratio of handler shows to non-handler, which is clearly not right. I would like to see a non-handler show every second day. That would be my ideal, as it allows and opportunity for strategy but also allows for greater entries across the show schedule which benefits everyone.

Analeyn

Well, I have been out of the country for a week so not entering shows. I just picked a boy from my kennel to enter (thank you Kennel Assistants for getting him ready to show!). I entered 8 shows. 2 are owner handler (so 25%). Of the remaining 6, I was able to get a top 3 handler in all shows. And of those 6, more than half were a number one handler....

And yes, it's a popular breed...

K

I agree with Kalynda. I just entered 3 dogs in shows and was pleasantly surprised to see breed entries spread out over multiple shows each day so I actually had some choice and could use some strategy in my choice of show -> do I go for the best group placement chance or the one where I can get a better handler? rather than just having to follow everyone else to the no-handler show everyday.

grif,

It's good to see that the new system works for some.

However, as I mentioned earlier the problem is not prevalent until you look at a smaller breed and see the effect that the current handler/non handler ratio has on entries and participation.

Analeyn

Maybe its just the gender I'm showing... Not sure, but my rankings have dropped down and I'm pretty much giving up xD