Search

.com Forum · Alpha Dog Forum

Replies in this thread : 75
Page : 1 2 3 4
<< prev page next page >>

 K D And E Kennels
Basic User
Posts : 161

Basic User
12/16/2014 5:25:48 PM reply with quote send message to K D And E Kennels Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

Jeff,

I did not know that this would be in place of salary. I am still in favor of the daily login bonus. Would we get a set number of sessions instead of salary options? Say X number for basic kennels and X number for standard? (and x number for kennels in family accounts maybe?)

Wondering now what you would use as the top cap for daily login? It would be nice to have income and sessions instead of having to choose between the two. And definitely want to be able to buy/sell sessions still.

-----
Last edited by K D And E Kennels on 12/16/2014 5:28:03 PM
 admin
Administrator
Forum Moderator
Posts : 5,000+

Administrator Forum Moderator
12/16/2014 5:53:57 PM reply with quote send message to admin Object to Post

More money stacked on top of money is always the best idea, isn't it?

I should probably temper my earlier comments.

We'd have to figure something out though because this is in no way a small change.
 Astoria2
Basic User
Posts : 78

Basic User
12/16/2014 8:54:41 PM reply with quote send message to Astoria2 Object to Post

I feel like if salary was removed that would drastically change waaay to many aspects of the game - finances, buying/selling sessions, higher log in bonus to beat the salary (since thats the original problem, too little money).

I could see basic accounts having a lesser log in bonus, just as they have fewer sessions to sell. While premium users get a slightly higher log in bonus in addition to their current salary/session setting. Basically not really changing anything but circulating more money in the game, hopefully raising play, puppy and stud sales, as well as show sponsors/payouts.

I would be interested to see why people oppose to it?

Personally, I couldn't breed and show my rare breeds, and have positive finances just through money management. Literally there are $0 in puppy and stud sales, plus entering at least 2 to 4 dogs for points and majors ($10-20) per night. On top of enough food costs and using all my daily sessions so no income there. I'm negative and I don't see any way around it.

This, to me, seems like a great way to reward those of us who are regular players and encourage other players to log in on a daily basis. A few of the other games I play on my phone are the same way, it definitely encourages me to log in at least once per day.
 Gypsy Wind Kennels
Basic User
Posts : 1,000+

Basic User
12/16/2014 9:25:30 PM reply with quote send message to Gypsy Wind Kennels Object to Post

With the slow down in users in so many breeds, it is much much harder to manage money with pretty much zero puppy sales and very few stud uses. And the biggest excuse why active users dont buy puppies or sponsor shows is lack of money. I get that money management is a big part of the game, I really do. But I think the money system as it stands, was created when the game was created and it was a different environment back then - more dogs, more active users. Its silly to think that after 10 years that while most other aspects of the game have evolved, money really hasn't. (well so I assume. Ive only got 8 years under my belt.) Even if sign in bonuses ARENT the way Jeff goes (and I have a feeling that people may be voting for that option just because of the way the poll is worded/lack of another presented option/frustration with the current system), the money system definitely needs SOMETHING - whether a tweak or an overhaul, well, I dont feel qualified to answer that question. But the system as it stands, is broken.
 Lilliput
Basic User
Posts : 3,000+

Basic User
12/16/2014 9:43:23 PM reply with quote send message to Lilliput Object to Post

I'm wondering how many of the salary naysayers have actually used salary lately? It's been cycling quite nicely the past 6months at LEAST. You get periods lasting a month or more where salary pays out MORE than session selling. You just have to monitor it and note the patterns.
 Lilliput
Basic User
Posts : 3,000+

Basic User
12/16/2014 9:46:10 PM reply with quote send message to Lilliput Object to Post

I also think we should move to strike the poll at the moment- the vast majority of those votes were cast without everyone knowing the details- and we STILL don't know the details. I imagine some people would have voted differently had they known it was instead of not in addition to salary. Details first, poll second.
 Almost Heaven
Basic User
Posts : 352

Basic User
12/16/2014 9:47:46 PM reply with quote send message to Almost Heaven Object to Post

That is what I was thinking at first also, the bonus being on top of salary/sessions as a way of rewarding daily players.

But if Jeff decides that the daily login replaces the salary that still would be a good thing. If your income was no longer tied to the sessions, you wouldn't have to chose between the two. People who have their accounts set to all salary would still get money AND have sessions to use or sell. The people who have their accounts set to all sessions would still have their sessions AND have an income source. The main difference would be instead of getting salary automatically, you would need to log in to collect it, just like you can't use sessions without logging in.

The other option would be to make the daily bonus a smaller amount and keep the salary/sessions in place as they are. But I don't know if that would be a programming option.
 Almost Heaven
Basic User
Posts : 352

Basic User
12/16/2014 10:00:28 PM reply with quote send message to Almost Heaven Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

Edited to remove comment.



-----
Last edited by Almost Heaven on 12/16/2014 10:14:52 PM
 Lilliput
Basic User
Posts : 3,000+

Basic User
12/16/2014 10:27:41 PM reply with quote send message to Lilliput Object to Post

We already have a way to get sessions AND salary though- choose one setting and then either buy what you need (salary) or use what you need and sell the rest (sessions). It doesn't solve the problem of people wanting more sessions than they can afford, because that will still happen. And it's part of the budgeting aspect of the game.

Also, salary is already tied to logging in- you have to log in at least once in 2 weeks, or it cuts you off.
 Almost Heaven
Basic User
Posts : 352

Basic User
12/16/2014 11:03:14 PM reply with quote send message to Almost Heaven Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

But there are people who play the game daily, they session their dogs, enter shows, breed puppies, pay stud fees, sponsor shows. Those are the people who the system is not working for, not the people who only collect a salary.

-----
Last edited by Almost Heaven on 12/16/2014 11:06:56 PM
 Lilliput
Basic User
Posts : 3,000+

Basic User
12/17/2014 12:22:55 AM reply with quote send message to Lilliput Object to Post

quote
posted by Almost Heaven
But there are people who play the game daily, they session their dogs, enter shows, breed puppies, pay stud fees, sponsor shows. Those are the people who the system is not working for, not the people who only collect a salary.

-----
Last edited by Almost Heaven on 12/16/2014 11:06:56 PM

If they're managing to sponsor shows, I'd say the game is working for them quite well! Shows are expensive.

As for the others, it's all about budgeting. I have a full kennel right now- 35 dogs. My food bill is $31. On just sessions, I'd have $29 extra/day. On Salary, I can get over $70/day after food at certain times of month.

You know what's not necessary? My running a full kennel. Or using outside studs. Or entering as many dogs as I want in a show. Any of those things could be cut back on while still running a showing/breeding program. Maybe you have to keep fewer dogs, or use fewer outside studs, or session and enter a few fewer dogs. That is what makes showdog unique- you don't have infinite funds and infinite kennel space, you have to learn to work with what you have. Is money tight right now? Yes. Is it unworkable? Absolutely not.
 Kalynda
Basic User
Posts : 411

Basic User
12/17/2014 6:31:45 AM reply with quote send message to Kalynda Object to Post

If there is to be some sort of bonus implemented, it needs to be for an accomplishment. I'd like to see a bonus for finishing a championship instead. Encourage folks to truly play the game.

K
 Astoria Kennel
Basic User
Posts : 317

Basic User
12/17/2014 6:51:37 AM reply with quote send message to Astoria Kennel Object to Post

I disagree with sessioning fewer dogs, entering fewer dogs, etc. to me, this is what the game is about!!! I don't want to keep paying real money for a family account where I can't actively show and session in 3 of my 5 kennels. To me, the point of the game is to improve the breeds, finish your dogs, and compete to be on top. Now this might be achievable in more popular breeds that have entries from other kennels. In my Briard kennel, it isn't possible to do any of that and have positive finances. I enjoy actually playing the game too much to let my dogs sit or not show them due to lack of funds- that defeats the purpose of paying real money. I don't use outside studs or buy outside puppies- there are literally none to be bought. 12 sessions a day will session 4 pups to be shown- I need more than 4 sessioned at a given time to build majors- otherwise I will never have Champions.

I guess at this point I kind of feel defeated, either join the masses to increase revenue, let my kennel sit empty, or stop playing the game. It's depressig to see my kennels in the hole and be able to do nothing. I truly love playing the game, but I think something needs to change, money wise, to keep player retention higher.
 Gypsy Wind Kennels
Basic User
Posts : 1,000+

Basic User
12/17/2014 12:53:29 PM reply with quote send message to Gypsy Wind Kennels Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

quote
posted by Astoria Kennel
I disagree with sessioning fewer dogs, entering fewer dogs, etc. to me, this is what the game is about!!! I don't want to keep paying real money for a family account where I can't actively show and session in 3 of my 5 kennels. To me, the point of the game is to improve the breeds, finish your dogs, and compete to be on top. Now this might be achievable in more popular breeds that have entries from other kennels. In my Briard kennel, it isn't possible to do any of that and have positive finances. I enjoy actually playing the game too much to let my dogs sit or not show them due to lack of funds- that defeats the purpose of paying real money. I don't use outside studs or buy outside puppies- there are literally none to be bought. 12 sessions a day will session 4 pups to be shown- I need more than 4 sessioned at a given time to build majors- otherwise I will never have Champions.

I guess at this point I kind of feel defeated, either join the masses to increase revenue, let my kennel sit empty, or stop playing the game. It's depressig to see my kennels in the hole and be able to do nothing. I truly love playing the game, but I think something needs to change, money wise, to keep player retention higher.

..

Im in a breed with a reasonable number of breeders and activity, but was thinking about this last night as well. There is likely going to be a BIG disconnect in opinion between those in more popular breeds vs those in much less popular ones.

-----
Last edited by Gypsy Wind Kennels on 12/17/2014 12:53:58 PM
 Summerwind Kennels
Basic User
Posts : 500+

Basic User
12/17/2014 1:13:10 PM reply with quote send message to Summerwind Kennels Object to Post

I voted yes to this based on the assumption it would be in addition to the current system, as that's how it was worded.

I've long said that SD could benefit from some type of "bonus" system. Whether it's based on accomplishments (such as finishing dogs, breeding merit dogs,etc.) or a log in type bonus. Whatever it is, I believe it would benefit SD. It would definitely help the moral of most players ( I say most because there are some who are happy the way it is), but for the most part, in the 11 years I've been on SD the biggest complaint was the difficulty to make money.

Now I will give you that back in the day, the SD economy was very busy and it was much easier to make money via show wins, outside stud usage and puppy sales. But times have changed and alot of people are alone in alot of breeds on SD so it's tougher to rely on that.

And I also think that not alot has been done over the years to revamp the money system on SD (Jeff can correct me if I'm wrong), I know that one addition years ago was the ability to sell our sessions, as this wasn't always the case. However, due to the current economy on SD it seems that something else needs adding.

I also disagree so very strongly about the solution is to "stop showing so much and stop breeding", this is a game first and foremost and if we want people to get more active in showing then this is not the answer and people shouldn't have to not show their dogs in order to make a few dollars. I think that is a big reason why it's so hard to get people to stay in the less popular breeds, it's no fun to do nothing but login and look at your kennel page. The primary "fun" on SD to most players is showing and finishing dogs and maybe getting a nice win along the way. I know if I had to stop showing and breeding I wouldn't play SD. If people have 3 or 4 nice dogs they should be able to show them without worrying they'll lose so much money they won't be able to do anything else for weeks on end but try to build up their balance.

Now I'm not saying to take away all the strategy of monitoring finances, but there needs to a little give with the take, in my opinion.

So I would ask a question to Jeff, if adding a "bonus" system will derail the SD economy, as you insinuated in a previous comment, what is your suggestion on how to improve the SD economy for those players that are begging for some help?
 PPvallhunds
Basic User
Posts : 5,000+

Basic User
12/17/2014 2:41:51 PM reply with quote send message to PPvallhunds Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

I voted yes on this thinking that this was to be an added bonus as well as the normal salary so nothing would be changed just this bonus added. If it is actualy a choice of either having the log in amounts or keeping the salary I'd like to change my vote to NO.

Getting rid of the salary would put people like me who can't log in every day at a big disadvantage and would make playing pointless. I've worked to saved up my money so I can show and breed how I want, but if slavery was dropped in favour of a log in amount I'd be unable to play as I do as I'd be stuck on the first amount all the time.
Why would I spend my heard earned real money to not be able to carry on playing the game as I have done all these years.

I keep my kennel full most of the time but I keep my food budget close to or under the salary amount, when it's higher I will go threw my dogs and get rid of lower quality ones to help cut costs. I breed all the time and normaly will session one dog at a time, if I wanted to session more I'd get rid of some more lower dogs.

As for breeds with few entries needing to enter other dogs to get points just use your basic account for that, we are allowed one basic account along with our payed for ones. There wasn't many showing in my breed at one point I was the onky one entering so I used my empty basic to buy some dog to enter shows to help me or any others in the breed showing.

I think we need an explanation on how that would work if it was done and what would be changed then there should be another vote on what people what once we know all the facts.

-----
Last edited by PPvallhunds on 12/17/2014 3:02:25 PM
 gaylanstudio
Premium Member
Posts : 2,000+

Premium Member
12/17/2014 2:57:47 PM reply with quote send message to gaylanstudio Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

I don’t think the ‘bonus’ can or should replace the regular income.

Nor do I think you should get a bonus for logging in one day or even two. I have 10 kennels. If I just login, it takes perhaps 5 minutes and people are going to do that – especially with that handy-dandy account linking we now have. That is not going to contribute much of anything to the game. (Perhaps I misunderstand the proposal.)

I am much more in favour of a bonus for achieving some goal – champions, merits, obedience titles, Top Dog & Bitch in breed, Top Dog in each group, Overall Top Dog. Perhaps a ‘Sweepstake’ similar to ShowHorse in every show. Perhaps a ‘mentoring’ award.

Look at the breed forums. No one posts anything except in a few isolated breeds. Borrow a page from ShowRabbit – a ShowDog Dollar for a meaningful comment, and 5 dollars for a meaningful new post.

And, as Lilliput has previously noted, salary is not stagnant and it’s not difficult to track. Jeff – set up an automatic post each morning “Base salary today was $4.25”. It does go up and down and we are still protected from it getting too low by the $3 base ($45 at the 15 times level). I have been using these cycles for years and most of my kennels are doing ok and most of my breeds are not all that ‘popular’. If I’m actively breeding and showing – no I don’t have much to spare to sponsor shows – not at $900 for sure.

If you want to bring in a ‘loyalty’ bonus, it should perhaps be based on continuous subscription and actual participation. And I agree that ‘Basics’ who are being good ShowDog citizens should also be included in the participation recognition.

Personally I think the current financial structure is working pretty well although I know there are some who are having problems and will disagree. The only thing I would really like to see is the addition of achievement awards.


-----
Last edited by gaylanstudio on 12/17/2014 3:01:54 PM
 K D And E Kennels
Basic User
Posts : 161

Basic User
12/17/2014 3:32:49 PM reply with quote send message to K D And E Kennels Object to Post

One thing I know for sure, regardless of how this turns out, it has brought to Jeff's attention a very real problem. I am sure he is reading each post in this thread and taking into consideration the frustration many of the smaller breeders are having.

Whatever happens I am sure that now that he knows how unhappy so many breeders are with the current economic system, he will do SOMETHING. At that is what we all really want, right?
 Lilliput
Basic User
Posts : 3,000+

Basic User
12/17/2014 3:55:09 PM reply with quote send message to Lilliput Object to Post

I did not say that players should STOP breeding and showing- I said they should manage their budgets appropriately, and sometimes that means keeping a smaller kennel size, or showing and breeding fewer dogs at once- that is, using more skill to manage their budget, choose good breedings, and pick their show string than trying to do it all. Part of strategy is knowing where to sacrifice and which sacrifices to make.

I think there will always be players who think they should be able to do it all and not be constrained by budget- but that's not what this game is about. If they want a game where budget doesn't matter, Im pretty sure there are games like that ut there somewhere.

I've played in popular breeds and in rare breeds- sometimes it gets tight, but the above has always worked for me.

That said, a small infusion of some sort would be nice. I've been pleased to see salary fluctuating again, and the earnings on it are quite good right now! But I'll admit with show entries down making some back on wins and sales is harder.
Not impossible to manage your budget- just the belt buckle has to get tighter.

I am not opposed to the idea of merit-based bonuses, assuming they are just that- bonuses. And of course assuming we iron out the details they seem sensible.
 Camp Run-Amok
Basic User
Posts : 38

Basic User
12/17/2014 4:06:03 PM reply with quote send message to Camp Run-Amok Object to Post

Lilliput, I am confused. Do you have more than one account? Because the account you are posting from is a kennel full of unnamed overage dogs? Which means none of these dogs have been shown or bred. I see that you used to be very active but not since April of 2013 have you finished a CH.

I am just curious be cause you are the most vocal of all the opponents for change and yet you don't seem to be actually playing the game?

No offense meant, feel free to ignore this comment.

Replies in this thread : 75
Page : 1 2 3 4
<< prev page next page >>

Post Reply

 



Did you know?
In the United Kingdom, the international championship show Crufts was first held in 1891.