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 Elixir Kennels
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12/17/2014 4:47:18 PM reply with quote send message to Elixir Kennels Object to Post

I understand the use of our basic account to enter and show dogs - however, I have one basic and have 3 rare breeds. That would mean (with my basic kennel limit of 5) that I can't even have enough dogs there to make points in all of my rare breed kennels. I do use my basic some, to collect salary, use some extra sessions or sell them, and to show a few dogs, but the basic account can only do so much.
I dont understand how Liliput says that her food bill is only $31 with 35 dogs, as the cheapest food is $1.25 per dog. with 25 dogs on the cheapest food possible would be $43.75... and I don't know about everyone else, but I certainly don't feed all of my dogs Old Boy, many are on Pet House, once being on a custom ration to raise condition, if I'm showing them they're on an even higher cost food.
My food costs vary from $45 to $58 in my kennels.

I could definitely also be behind some sort of achievement bonus as well. For finishing a dog, GCH titles, CD titles, Merit producers, Top in Breed, Top in groups, etc. I think there are several ways to go with that as well - my only suggestion would be to make sure that some are achievable by all players.

I worded the poll in this manner since that's pretty much all the information I was given based on the previous thread. I, too, was not expecting this to be in place of the current salary/session setting. I was thinking of them as a bonus, an addition.

Either way, I think it is great that this is being discussed!! I, for one, hope that something will change, even if it is not the original poll's suggestions. After all, I intended them to be suggestions only, not a proposal.
 Astoria Kennel
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12/17/2014 4:47:46 PM reply with quote send message to Astoria Kennel Object to Post

That was me happy :)
 Lilliput
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12/17/2014 5:09:34 PM reply with quote send message to Lilliput Object to Post

I do indeed have multiple kennels and do consider myself to be playing in this one. It's on a bit of a break, but I've been actively managing it's budget and keeping the bloodlines alive so when it is time, we'll be good to go.

My food bill is indeed just $31 with 35 dogs. Food prices have never been exactly what the site reports them to be. That's another aspect of budgeting- is carefully managing your food costs and knowing when to switch dogs down to less expensive food. Which is possible even on sessioning dogs if you pay close attention to the trends in trait acquisition in your breed.
To any curious, I have 16 dogs on Old Boy (because unless you are showing them their stats don't matter) and 19 bitches on Pet House Adult to hold condition for breeding. Clearly if I was sessioning or conditioning some it would be a bit higher, but again, managing one's food bill is all art of the game. Sometimes you have to reduce your kennel space or cut dogs from the show string etc to make keep the budget ok.
 Treestand Kennel
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12/17/2014 5:19:27 PM reply with quote send message to Treestand Kennel Object to Post

The food charges vary for the different breeds. I've noticed my large breeds eat more than my Gordon Setters. I have compared the breeds in my basic kennel. happy :)
 Clay Creek Falls
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12/17/2014 5:22:39 PM reply with quote send message to Clay Creek Falls Object to Post

When first suggesting this idea, I initially meant for the bonus scheme to be an addition to the current salary/session system setup.
As the current salary amounts simply do not cover food bills, showing, breeding etc. All aspects which are involved in the game and make this sim game unique.

I did a few quick additions & calculations, and here are my results.

I am currently the 2nd ranked kennel in Border Collies (most competitive breed) which also means higher stud fees and more show entry competitors. The top stud fees are currently sitting at $300, and in order to progress further in the game you have to use an outside stud every now and then as to avoid increasing COI in breeding (you can get a half decent stud for $100+) You cannot ignore that aspect of the game.

I currently own 18 dogs, 6 of which are currently being shown & 2 who are on their way to their Grand Champion titles & 3 currently being sessioned.
What if instead of doing a daily log in bonuses, we increase the show payouts?
If we looked at doing something like this, it would encourage more people to show their dogs AND also be rewarded for doing so.
I had a Winner's Dog the other day, and the payout was a small $2.40 - this didn't even cover that single dog's entry fee of $5.00 or his food for that day $1.67. To me this is a lose lose situation. How else are we supposed to stay in the positives? Yes, I sell sessions, however they are only going for $30.00 per day and my food bill is $30.00 per day... Most of my dogs are on pet house, all non-showing males on Old Boy & 3 of the dogs who are being sessioned are on $5.00 ea.
I've also done a few banners here and there, it gives a boost for a short amount of time before the money becomes depleted. And banner making as such, isn't really an aspect of the game and we shouldn't have to rely on banner sales to increase money. What about the people who cannot make banners?

So, as I said before. What if we increase show payouts? and possibly also include the payouts for finnishing a champion, bronze sire/dam, Grand Champion etc?

Lindsey
 K D And E Kennels
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12/17/2014 5:46:38 PM reply with quote send message to K D And E Kennels Object to Post

I think what everyone is missing in all the debates is that ultimately it is Jeff's site, so his call.

Yes we would love to see the daily login bonus in addition to the currently salary/sessions, that is what I thought it was going to be. That much is obvious from the poll.

We can all voice our opinions, vote in the poll and throw out all the suggestions that we want, but in the end, Jeff has to decide what is best for HIS website. He has been successfully running this for over 10 years. He is not going to make a rash choice that could theoretically kill the game.

Maybe he will take a few of the suggestions and act on them. He does not have to put everything to a vote (poll) as was suggested.

It has been made very plain that people want/need more income. Now it is up to Jeff.
 
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12/17/2014 6:24:38 PM reply with quote send message to Object to Post edit post

I don't see why a properly weighted daily bonus would necessitate a removal of daily salary.

I would say a better model for the daily bonus would be a 7-day cycle (so after the 7day bonus you return to the beginning as you would if you missed a day), also lowering the value of the rewards a bit:

1st day log in: $5 bonus
2nd day: $5 or 1 extra session?
3rd day: $10
4th day: $15
5th day: $20
6th day: $25
7th day: $50
(weekly bonus if signing in everyday = $130 or a bit more than a single puppy sale)

If that causes rampant inflation (which I doubt it would) the minimum base salary limit could always be reduced to $2/day rather than $3/day (which assuming 15X salary would be a decrease of $105/week almost balancing the increase in money from the daily rewards - net change of $25/week or the entry fee for 5 shows).

Daily login bonuses do promote activity and addictiveness of games since people want to log in each day and thus are more likely to spent a couple extra minutes entering shows or other activity.

Basics should get a daily login bonus to but perhaps lower amounts (or free sessions instead of cash?) since they also have lower costs.

As for budgetting being a key part of the game, I agree but budgetting without significant income just means not really playing for many players and unless maximum balance limits are dropped the current game economics forces many players to be in the negatives or close to it. Since the number of players isn't going to go back to where it was, the best we can do is allow the current players to do more by increasing their income.

grif,
 griffin
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12/17/2014 6:25:31 PM reply with quote send message to griffin Object to Post

BTW That was me, timed out!

grif,
 Fourlorn
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12/17/2014 7:07:49 PM reply with quote send message to Fourlorn Object to Post

All I can say is that the economy here in showdog is suffering the same tragedy as the real world. There just isn't enough money to go around.

It's just not logical to think that people should have to be in the popular breeds to get by. And here lately, it seems that way. I've got a family account and a only one of them is in a popular breed. I've managed to maintain good finances because I have had super studs and lots of sales. Fourlorn had donated thousands of dollars to the showdog community over the year. At one time, I was up over $20,000. Most of that, I gave away to help out others. I bought random dogs for way more then their sale cost. I offered money to people who were in debt. I sponsored show after show for specialties and all breeds. Now, my funds have really depleted and I've had to cut back a lot of what I am doing in order to stay out of the negatives and give myself a safe margin for error.

My other kennels are seriously in debt, the rarer breed kennels that is.

I am absolutely against the idea of stopping doing what we pay this game to do. I won't stop sessioning, showing or breeding. That's the point of the game. I'll eventually just get so far in debt that the finances won't be of any use and then I'll just drop the accounts. It doesn't matter how much we plan and/or budget in the less common breeds, there is NO INCOME.

-Four
 Summerwind Kennels
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12/17/2014 7:36:04 PM reply with quote send message to Summerwind Kennels Object to Post

I agree with Griffin and Four, there has to be something. I also can't see how an extra hundred or so dollars a week will derail things.

 Gypsy Wind Kennels
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12/17/2014 8:44:36 PM reply with quote send message to Gypsy Wind Kennels Object to Post

quote
posted by K D And E Kennels
I think what everyone is missing in all the debates is that ultimately it is Jeff's site, so his call.

Yes we would love to see the daily login bonus in addition to the currently salary/sessions, that is what I thought it was going to be. That much is obvious from the poll.

We can all voice our opinions, vote in the poll and throw out all the suggestions that we want, but in the end, Jeff has to decide what is best for HIS website. He has been successfully running this for over 10 years. He is not going to make a rash choice that could theoretically kill the game.

Maybe he will take a few of the suggestions and act on them. He does not have to put everything to a vote (poll) as was suggested.

It has been made very plain that people want/need more income. Now it is up to Jeff.

Agreed to some extent. Of course he doesnt HAVE to do anything, but if the majority of his user base wants something, it's silly to ignore it because ultimately if its something people become upset enough about, users will leave. He never HAS to do anything, but there comes a point when it makes good business sense.
 . Honor
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12/17/2014 8:48:37 PM reply with quote send message to . Honor  Object to Post

Just rolled over -$2,000 in this kennel. That's insane. Considering I only breed to my own studs lately and yes I show but hey, this IS SHOWdog. So...

As stated, something needs to happen because I really don't want to lose this kennel.

-Honor
 Gypsy Wind Kennels
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12/17/2014 8:49:35 PM reply with quote send message to Gypsy Wind Kennels Object to Post

quote
posted by Clay Creek Falls
I had a Winner's Dog the other day, and the payout was a small $2.40 - this didn't even cover that single dog's entry fee of $5.00 or his food for that day $1.67. To me this is a lose lose situation.

Oh yes, so much this. Yes, you get higher payouts for group and show placements, but Im willing to bet that the majority of users, especially in smaller breeds, are not getting those. This right here is one of the big issues with the economy the way it stands in the game.

Yes, there needs to be some element of a challenge to the game, and yes budgeting should fit in to some extent. BUT like I said before, without any real changes to the money system, there have been huge changes to the environment and user base of the game. And ultimately, more money available will mean more people session and show dogs, which is why we play the game in the first place. Its awful to feel "stuck" because you're losing money every day, dont have enough cash to buy or breed in any new blood without going further into debt. People play the game to have fun showing and breeding. Of course there has to be a way to impose some limits on it - no one should be able to show or breed unlimited amounts all the time - but playing a game where you just dig yourself deeper and deeper into a financial hole because there's no realy way to dig yourself out without stopping doing the whole POINT of the game, well that's just depressing.
 PPvallhunds
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12/17/2014 9:02:15 PM reply with quote send message to PPvallhunds Object to Post

I'd like to see show payouts increased, I don't often show any more one as my breed is less active now the competitiveness is gone where as people in my breed would often talk on the breed forum and u wanted see who could get to the top kennel spot, and two I'm just not getting anything out of it as the $6 best of breed winning just covers the entry fee of the cheapest shows.
 Apolda
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12/17/2014 11:49:36 PM reply with quote send message to Apolda Object to Post

I also voted for the daily log in bonus thinking it was going to be on top of the current salary/session system. Since this will not be the case, I would vote no; however, I do support a bonus for merits, such as achieving Ch, GCh, Sire/Dam Merits, and possibly an increase in show payouts. Actually, this was my initial vote on the poll, "implement some other type of bonus."

I am in a more popular breed and am just doing okay, so I can definitely see how breeders in rarer breeds are struggling.
 Gypsy Wind Kennels
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12/18/2014 2:45:54 AM reply with quote send message to Gypsy Wind Kennels Object to Post

Maybe it's time to make a new, more accurate poll? With the options of don't change a thing, log in bonus instead of current salary option, bigger show payouts, bonuses for completeing goals such as finishing champions, or "other - explain your idea below." Im not sure how to start a poll or I would...
 Gypsy Wind Kennels
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12/18/2014 2:46:26 AM reply with quote send message to Gypsy Wind Kennels Object to Post

Or maybe even more basic. Just a poll of: Do you think the game's money system needs revamping or is fine as it is?
 DoogieG6521
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12/18/2014 8:23:04 AM reply with quote send message to DoogieG6521 Object to Post

I have been playing for a very long time. Years ago, the economy was thriving, puppy and stud sales were brisk. I showed a lot, and reaped a decent amount in payouts. I was always at the $25000 cap. I am not in a popular breed. As the number of active users declined, so does the money being spent. It's logical. Now I do not show, as I don't have the funds. My food is very bare-bones. Puppy and stud sales are virtually non-existent. I am falling behind quality wise as funds just don't permit unlimited and outside breeding. I miss showing and finishing champions. That said, I am not going to change to a popular breed just to make money. Finishing bonuses won't help those who can't afford to show. I feel a loyalty bonus is a great idea to get an influx of new money into the game, but it would need to be in addition to salary or the point would be moot. Our economy has change, just like the real world. We greatly need some sort of stimulus or I'm afraid our player numbers will just continue to decline as players get frustrated and leave. I have considered leaving, but just refuse to throw in the towel. Something need to be changed, that is for sure.
Blunotes
 PPvallhunds
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12/18/2014 12:05:16 PM reply with quote send message to PPvallhunds Object to Post

I honestly don't see how some people end up in dept.
im currently on 4 sessions/10X salary, I have currently 29 adult dogs and a few litters yet the salary is more than my food bill. Any boys im not showing go on old boy, girls on pet house, the dog im training goes on a high fat ration till condition is up then I use top dog foods.
Today I made a $16 profit from the daily salary while having sessions to train a dog to show. When I show I entre the $5 ones which is what a session sells for so my extra session pays for a show for one dog for the day.
I just train one dog at a time and work on breeding that next great dog to show.

if my balance starts getting low ill save up for a week or two, lower and advertise my studs and put up some pups/older girls for sale that I would have just FH and advertise them.

Ive reasontly got in to a second breed on a small scale and have made $1600 from stud fees from the one male I have.
 gaylanstudio
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12/18/2014 12:30:31 PM reply with quote send message to gaylanstudio Object to Post

Jeff,

When ShowHorse recently went through a similar financial debate, you went through the user base and gave us a report of the general financial situations across the board.

Can you do the same for ShowDog please?

Total user base (active kennels):
Number over $25,000:
Number number over $10,000:
. . .
Number under -$1000 (slightly in debt)
Number under -$3000 (significantly in debt)
Number under -$5000 (seriously in debt)

(Use whatever brackets seems appropriate.)


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