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Author Topic : Earning CH points from group placing??
 Crystal Cove Kennels
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12/17/2014 11:37:59 AM reply with quote send message to Crystal Cove Kennels Object to Post   

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

If some of the rarer breeds could earn points from placing in the group, like in real life shows, it would help displace the burden of having to have so many dogs session just to build a major. I am involved in several breeds where I am practically the only breeder so there is little chance of any competition, it's a financial strain, an issue of room in my kennel, and poor strategy to have to keep dogs in my kennel just build majors/points for competitive ones. In real life showing you can share any points earned by dogs that are beaten in the group.
For Example I have pointer who places in the group with a group 4 and is unfinished. He beats the lab who is a champion, but the lab champion lab had enough breed points to have a 3 point major in his breed for non finished labs. I would now share those points with the lab best of winners, allowing me to finish from the groups, because I beat the lab in the group.
I think I explained it right. This would be incredibly helpful in breeds w little competition but have good enough dogs to place in the groups. It would breed competition where there is little in rarer breeds and drive people (especially myself to show more often).

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Last edited by Crystal Cove Kennels on 12/17/2014 11:43:30 AM
 Treestand Kennel
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12/17/2014 2:31:26 PM reply with quote send message to Treestand Kennel Object to Post

I thought this was already implemented?

I seem to remember getting 5 points when the breed didn't have enough for 5 points for a Gordon Setter that took BIS a few times.
 Lilliput
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12/17/2014 3:40:33 PM reply with quote send message to Lilliput Object to Post

I believe as it stands right now you have to win group to take points, not just place in group. However, I think I could get behind the idea of changing it so group placements can take points.
 Astoria Kennel
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12/17/2014 4:27:19 PM reply with quote send message to Astoria Kennel Object to Post

The point system here is identical to AKC's point system with one exception. In SD, if there is one class bitch and one class dog entered, whomever takes BOB gets one point - this doesn't happen in AKC. in AKC you need to get a group ONE in order to earn Ch. points, a 5 point major.

I'm not sure that I would want group placements to count towards Championship titles.... maybe that's just me and my AKC mentality
 Summerwind Kennels
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12/17/2014 4:29:11 PM reply with quote send message to Summerwind Kennels Object to Post

In Canada you do get points from group placements, 1-4 as the OP described, so it's really not that foreign a concept to many of us.
 Treestand Kennel
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12/17/2014 5:15:31 PM reply with quote send message to Treestand Kennel Object to Post

I do like the idea of group placements awarding points ... Maybe a poll is in order? happy :)
 Crystal Cove Kennels
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12/17/2014 7:39:04 PM reply with quote send message to Crystal Cove Kennels Object to Post

I just thought it would really help out less active breeds. If you look at bottom of the popularity pool there are breeds w no listed active breeders in them and no showing activity for the month. It would really be nice to be able to still competively finish dogs. Currently the only option now is to stack your own points, which can be costly and removes the competitive/strategy nature the game provides. I don't know how to do polls....
 gaylanstudio
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12/18/2014 1:31:58 PM reply with quote send message to gaylanstudio Object to Post

I would support this idea even though I don't get group placements very often - but once in a while with certain breeds . . .
 Go Direct Kennels
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12/19/2014 1:11:25 AM reply with quote send message to Go Direct Kennels Object to Post

In this kennel I have a less popular breed apso's and my other kennel has chows. Sometimes these dogs do take group placement but it is really hard to get a finish CH without staking my own points always because there is no competition.
 Crystal Cove Kennels
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12/19/2014 1:15:36 AM reply with quote send message to Crystal Cove Kennels Object to Post

I posted a poll, please share your opinion as this could really help out less competitive breeds and kennels.
 S. B. G. Chow Chows
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12/20/2014 8:04:19 PM reply with quote send message to S. B. G. Chow Chows Object to Post

A Group 1 or a Best in Show at an AKC event is not an automatic 5 point major. How it works is you get the highest amount of points earned by the breed in that group. Same as Best In Show,.. you earn the highest amount of points earned for the entire show.

So say the most points earn in the group was by the Poodle which was four, so if the Lowchen that was the sole entry got a group 1,... he would get 4 points to his name. Same concept for the Best In Show winner. Its not an automatic 5 points
 Aldeberan
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12/21/2014 12:46:25 AM reply with quote send message to Aldeberan Object to Post

I would love to get points for group placings. I seriously doubt my breed will ever get a Group 1 but I have gotten placings. The only way to get a major is to session enough dogs to build one. It's expensive for sure.
 Halcyon Dreams
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12/21/2014 2:09:05 PM reply with quote send message to Halcyon Dreams Object to Post

I think this is a great idea
 Appenzeller Hill
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12/22/2014 5:31:25 PM reply with quote send message to Appenzeller Hill Object to Post

It is possible but it needs also entrees into the same class. I had it with Miniature Pinscher. I also kepp Toy and Miniature Poodles in my family account but during the last months my time was really limitted sad :(
 Go Direct Kennels
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12/22/2014 9:05:31 PM reply with quote send message to Go Direct Kennels Object to Post

There is another thread with a poll if anyone is interested in sharing their opinion on that.
 Halcyon Delight
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12/23/2014 1:55:04 AM reply with quote send message to Halcyon Delight Object to Post

Also how about Grand Champ Points?

My dogs can get Best in Group with no competitors and get 5 points towards a Champ, but later on get it again when he is now a champ and get no points towards a GCH? Maybe even one GCH point could be considered in this scenario?

www.showdog.com/shows/breed_results.aspx?show=Fenland Festival 92&breed=Cavalier King Charles Spaniel
 Kalynda
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12/23/2014 6:39:23 AM reply with quote send message to Kalynda Object to Post

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Disagree - I like that this game mirrors AKC points.

K

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Last edited by Kalynda on 12/23/2014 6:39:40 AM
 Solimar
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12/23/2014 3:41:56 PM reply with quote send message to Solimar Object to Post

Personally, I think this is one thing that shouldn't be fiddled with.

Group placements are too numerous to award title points vs group wins.
 Lilliput
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12/23/2014 11:40:04 PM reply with quote send message to Lilliput Object to Post

quote
posted by Solimar
Personally, I think this is one thing that shouldn't be fiddled with.

Group placements are too numerous to award title points vs group wins.

Are they really though? In my experience, a dog has to be REALLY good to get a group placing. Dogs in breeds with lots of entries will need to beat those other dogs to get points anyway (and in order to get points in an unpopulated show- they have to beat a dog of another breed with higher points in group- so they still have to be a great dog). On the other hand, dogs in a breed that has no entries, will still have to be of exceptional quality, but now they will at least have some outlet other than show stacking for points.

I've been in breeds that had group wins only a few times in breed history. Even in breeds where we won somewhat regularly, the dogs that did were high quality dogs.
 Solimar
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12/24/2014 8:42:13 AM reply with quote send message to Solimar Object to Post

Yes, I showed a Curly male to #3 Sporting Group for a month or two in a row. He never finished because he was showing against no other breed entries... He never got above a G2 so no G1s for majors.

He was really nice for the breed. Curlies have the same SOP as Great Pyrs, Labs, and Kuvs.... so once my breeds SOP stats catch up with Labs... I can get group ones.

So eventhough my Curly was the nicest one in the breed at the time, He didnt deserve points from group placements.

I will push my breed to catch up with the other all breeds to get show placings.... then the curly breed will deserve pts from BIG wins.

I need to improve my dogs to compete in the game... not change the game to meet my dogs where they are...

Will
 Apolda
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12/24/2014 9:24:09 AM reply with quote send message to Apolda Object to Post

quote
posted by Solimar

I need to improve my dogs to compete in the game... not change the game to meet my dogs where they are...

This is exactly how I feel about this issue. It's not rare for a couple of my dogs to earn a group placing, however, I don't feel that they necessarily deserve to win points for that; I do feel they deserve points for winning the group.

Tori

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The largest and most prestigious dog show in America is the Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show, was established in 1877 and is held annually at Madison Square Garden in New York City.