.com Forum · General

oops sorry, hit send before writing.

I'd be very interested to know which/if any breeds are currenty producing SOPs of 98 and upwards.

Are these breeds consistently winning BIS or are BIS wins being awarded to breeds with lower SOP too.

i just had a 98.60 great dane born.

Keeshonds are hovering right out 95.0-ish, and we have pretty consistent group placements and BiG, but the highest I've seen awarded is "2nd in Show", but no BiS yet. However, with several 2nds I know of, I feel like we're close. Even at only 95.

Borzois are in the 98's, and winning well

There's a GSD on 97.55 with 10 groups and 3 BIS wins at 51 days old

And a Pomeranian on 95.65 with 32 group wins but NO BIS wins - does a dog have to be over a certain SOP to win BIS?

Maybe there isn't a minimum SOP that guarantees a BIS as there's a TT on 92.25 SOP that's won 10 groups and 6 BIS

Way to have a conversation with yourself, lol.

Anyway, a breed winning BIS doesn't have nearly as much to do with how high their SOP number is than how well their standard of points lines up with the judges preferences, and how high those numbers are compared to dogs with the same standard of points.

So for example if two dogs have the same trait layout for a standard of points, the breed with the higher SOP number is always going to win against the other one overall, especially if they occupy the same group. A perfect judge for a breed would be one that mirrors their most and least important traits with their preferences. No such judge exists that's a perfect match for any breeds standard of points as far as I know, so it comes down to which breed is the best match to the judges preferences as well as how much breed bias the judge has, because that's how high they regard their own preferences.

So lets use my breed for an example:

Malmutes have a standard of points as follows:

Head 15
fq 5
hq 5
Gait 10
tnb 5
Coat 10
Size 20
feet 10
General 20


So the perfect judge for them would have the following preferences:

Head: high
fq: low or very low
hq low or very low
Gait: Normal
tnb: very low
Coat: Normal or high
Size High or very high
Feet: Normal or high

Such a judge does not exist, but if they did you can bet they would award BIS to mals every time.

As it is judges will prefer breeds that match up the closest, since nothing can be an exact match (better match plus higher numbers equals BIS for that breed), and that's how it works. Hope that helps.

Note: it also matter how a dogs traits as an individual match the judge as that can give them a leg up in their own breed with that judge.

Note two: Breeds with a more unique standard of points layouts tend to win more BIS than others, because they are a better match for more judges, and have less competition from other breeds, being that they are dissimilar.

That sounds complicated - its work time for me so i'll reread it later - thanks for that though, might just help me

So if General is 20 what does that include?

General is 20 for all breeds and it includes temperament and showshine. These are not even I'd say temperament occupies a weight of 15 in that and showshine occupies the other 5.

Thanks