.com Forum · Bug Reporting and Suggestions

I was looking at rhondacline’s thread ‘what’s your dream update?’ earlier and it inspired me to post a few suggestions, and while I would have placed it on that thread I do actually want feedback thus why it’s in its own post here.

Anyway, I’m not asking specifically for any of this to be added to the game, just putting it up here to possibly spur some conversation; see if I’m alone in wanting these things. So if you want to shoot it down that’s fine as I like to gather varied opinions, just don’t debate me.

First up:

How about Achievements?

Anyone who games (especially on consoles) will be familiar with achievements; when you meet the conditions for one you unlock it along with any rewards that are assigned. While I don’t see the reward aspect working so well on a game like this one, except for maybe some money for achieving select things; I do see it putting badges or ribbons into another link that can be accessed from someone’s kennel page.

Why do I think this is a good idea? Simply because this is a proven model, and it significantly increases the longevity of a game to have things to work toward, and more importantly truly receiving acknowledgment in some way for the things you accomplish.

As you know many people already record things they’ve achieved on their kennel pages, and some even have lists of goals that they check off as they reach them, but instead of people having to keep track of these things themselves wouldn’t it be great if the game logged it instead? I certainly think so. Having goals, challenging one’s self, having more things to look forward to, and strive for; this is what keeps people coming back for more, this is what helps retain them, and makes it harder for things to grow stale.

How would it work? The best way this could be implemented would be that as you unlock achievements they would appear on an achievements page either with a graphic or just written out with the conditions that had to be met to get it listed along with it. Perhaps some particularly demanding achievements could come with some money. Though prizes aren’t all that important as just an achievement in and of itself is a prize.

How many achievements would there be? This one is hard to say; milestone type achievements should obviously be included, but there should be some smaller objective type achievements worked in there as well, maybe nothing breed specific as that would discourage people that don’t want to go into said breeds, and there shouldn’t be too many easy ones or it sets back the sense of accomplishment, but too many difficult ones would frustrate people. I’d say that it would need to be a generous amount as it’s all about padding the desire to keep on playing and trying for things. I honestly don’t think it would be too challenging for the community to come up with a reasonable list of achievements since many people already know what things that they work toward and consider achievements, including the people with the aforementioned lists. It would be interesting to get some discussion going on this to see what kind of things people can come up with.

Maybe a pop up would occur when one receives an achievement like: “Milestone achieved: Bred 50 champions” or something like that just for an example that would then it appear on ones achievements page.

Anyway, this doesn’t seem like it would be problematic to add from a coding standpoint and for something that enriches the game so profoundly without actually changing a thing involving actual game play; all I have to say is why not?

Next up:

I know anytime that someone actually suggests changes to the game play itself that they are usually shot down promptly, however even knowing this I’m going to go ahead and dip my toes into those torrent waters.

So I was thinking; how about separate judges at Breed, Group and Show level? It wouldn’t even have to be for every show it could just be a special show that there is one a night of. That way it could spice things up a bit without changing everything.

The reason I bring this up is because not only is this format more realistic (this is how it’s done in real life), but it would also boost the strategy involved in entering shows somewhat. Extra layers of strategy aren’t for everyone, and I do realize that this would make entering shows slightly more difficult and that people reject anything that is more difficult or takes more time to do, but honestly, these are also the kinds of things that deepen immersion and augment appeal. If something is more difficult it has the added benefit of also coming with a greater sense of accomplishment for succeeding at it. Also, this could cause upsets (which is a good thing; less predictability. ). Believe me I could go into so much more depth and complex changes to propose for adding to the game play, but I won’t I’ll just put this up here for discussion.

Lastly:

A relatively small change: why not make all outside studs appear in a list to compare to your breedable bitches the way that all in-house studs appear when you click the breed button on a bitch? This would be so convenient to just be able to look over them all at once. Anything that chops time off of breeding is most welcome.

That’s all I want to type in here, but like I said I could certainly go nuts suggesting changes to game play, but I won’t for now; baby step and all that. So anyway, feel free to chime in, I’d like to have a brainstorming session, get an idea of how received these things might be. Thanks for reading.

YES! To everything!

Achievements would quite simply be amazing! I think everyone loves the “10 years” badge – I’d love to see my Kennel page with some awards badges.
(Ribbons, Rosettes, Trophies – the better the achievement the better the badge)
Awards/Achievements give players a specific goal to strive for and when other players see them, they want one too!

25 * 50 * 100 * 250 * 500 Champions Finished
I think there definitely should be a few "all breed" achievements too, as so many people already strive for the "Champion in Every Breed"

(Hijacking to add it would be really nice to also have a Bronze/Silver/Gold/Platinum badge similar to the AOM badge on the dog's page. Also, the addition of the OTCh title
In both cases, I believe all the framework is there, we just need the 'achievements' added.
These tweaks would add a couple more badges to strive for...)


Three levels of judges? Yes, Yes, Yes. I would LOVE to see the added realism and some unpredictability.

Stud Comparison: Seems like that’s come up before and would be SO helpful.

Achievement awards: I 100% agree with this idea!

I really want to see a 'Supreme' or Platinum Champion award - for instance for dogs who win over 150 GrandChampion points etc.


Separate judges for breed/group/show level - I don't particularly like this idea. I think the way the shows run at the moment is fine.


Making all outside studs appear in the same way that the bitches do in terms of comparing them - I think this is a FANTASTIC idea! I have wanted this for so long - I've been playing for 9 years and have always wondered why this hasnt already been implemented.

As long as the achievements add to prestige, don't care. Otherwise, I don't need pretty badges.

As far as the judges in shows... how would that work? If there are three handler judges, would you choose 3 handlers at the different levels? With the current system, that might not work and that's definitely not realistic. What about OH judges at one level? Would handlers be removed? Wouldn't they become obsolete? Might have to propose how this would work out...

And of course to the last. What's the difference between inside and outside studs? :P

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Last edited by Kievan Kennels on 5/11/2015 9:30:07 AM

And Dalkeith, RL Platinum is 800 points and the AKC system for GCH levels is pretty good. A poll was made to reflect that now:

www.showdog.com/forum/read.aspx?id=399497

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posted by Kievan Kennels
As far as the judges in shows... how would that work? If there are three handler judges, would you choose 3 handlers at the different levels? With the current system, that might not work and that's definitely not realistic. What about OH judges at one level? Would handlers be removed? Wouldn't they become obsolete? Might have to propose how this would work out...

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The way I read it, you choose 1 handler to try to make it through all 3 rounds.

Running scenarios in my head - I wonder if we wouldn't get a similar result with just 2 judges.
One for Breed & Group and one for Best In Show.
(And maybe that's less work for Jeff if it were implemented?)

Either way, the point, as I see it, is to remove some of the 'predictibility' from the results.

As a related note, I have always wondered how results would change if we didn't know which handlers the judges preferred - and everyone just picked at random. Or if handlers retired and we had handlers coming and going just like judges.

Bottom line - I think some sort of update will give folks something to look forward to and get excited about.

Why does someone ALWAYS have to pour cold water on other's ideas....

I love EVERY suggestion....and here (for what it's worth is my two-pennyworth, or two cents-worth for the American players)....

Whoever said "We don't want no stinking badges" (I stole the quote I hasten to add) was a miserable so-and-so in the film and so I say "We want loadsa badges" - rosette shaped coloured award badges please for Group wins (I can live with the 'wrong' colours lol as here in UK first is red: but blue is fine too) so each group win earns you a mini rosette which get 'traded in' for a slightly bigger rosette of a different colour for 10 group wins, again for 25 group wins etc.

BIS wins get a red,white and blue rosette, again bigger for 10 BIS 25 BIS etc

BISS another coloured rosette....I'm sure you get the idea.

GCH's need rewarding for points but there needs to be awards from 100 points (which isn't that easy to achieve, but is achievable by basics as well as premiums), then say 150 points, 200, 250 points - there could be awards for higher but lets be realistic, how many kennels continue to campaign a GCH when they have new CH's coming up the ranks with better SOP? (and the most points EVER LIKELY to be achieved by a GCH in a very popular and well supported entry breed is 500, and thats based on winning 5 points every day for 100 days assuming the dog makes CH on day 16 and GCH on day 21 winning 5 point majors throughout and never missing a day's showing and NEVER being beaten).

I would like to see grand champion levels added, on a point scale reasonable for the show dog time frame. I do think it will probably make it harder overall to get grands on dogs who aren't tops in the breed, as more people would continue to show their grands until their retirement, but it would add another element to factor in.

I would also like to see awards for number of champions bred-both in total numbers, and a "versatility award" or some such as mentioned for those who finish a champion in every breed or every breed in a group.

As far as multiple judges per show, I have to think a little bit more. It is a very interesting idea and it would definitely affect handler selecting-if the judges preferences don't line up do you choose the handler more likely to win you breed, or the one more likely to take the higher placements if you get there? definitely more strategy involved!

I also think it would be helpful to have the list of outside studs pop up in a single list, but in some breeds (cough Alaskan Malamutes cough) with over 100 studs, it might be unwieldy. I wonder if you could come up with a interim screen where you would check the studs you want to compare to keep it at a more manageable level? This would be a little more difficult I would think but shouldn't be too hard...it would also be nice to be able to sort studs by color and/or SOP to narrow down who you want to look at. (it would be really awesome to be able to sort through by trait to find the closest to 10....but that's probably dreaming too big and removing some of the strategy!)

Anyway, great ideas!

Anonymous poster -

quote

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As long as the achievements add to prestige, don't care. Otherwise, I don't need pretty badges.

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Quoting myself...

I don't care if the suggestion is added either way. However, I think it should add prestige. Otherwise, I personally don't need the incentive.

I don't think I would oppose any of the suggestions.

I do like the idea of more than one judge - that would really shake things up and be more realistic at the same time. I'd like to see a discussion of how this might work, or not work on SD.

I believe I may have proposed something similar to the proposed enhancement for stud selection some time ago. Most folks thought it was a great idea but it didn't go anywhere. Something else to have a discussion about.

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Last edited by GaylanStudio9 on 5/12/2015 4:18:31 PM

I've given some thought to the multiple judges suggestion - it would certainly bring SD more in line with RL, which appears to be what a lot of players want, and would up the strategy element because you would have to not only choose the best breed judge for your dog, hoping it won BOB, but you'd have to check out the group judge too if your dog was in with a shout at a group placement.

Not only would it involve even more time spent picking shows to enter, but the show promoter would need to carefully choose judges who favoured the same handlers and who looked for the same traits in dogs otherwise the shows would be a real 'lottery', it would be anyone's guess which dogs would win through to group and BIS - I sort of want this 'improvement' to the game, if only to randomly enter my best dogs just to see how far they would go.

I'd have to say - I am really not keen on the idea of changing the way we do things with showing re: different judges for breed and group/show level.

At the end of the day I only have so much time that I can spend on SD and I already find that entering and placing handlers etc across all 6 of my kennels takes the longest time!

I am sessioning/showing anywhere from 5-15 dogs per kennel so that number can range from 30-50 dogs across my kennels (as 2 of my kennels are always quieter on the show front). Entering these dogs always takes forever as I endeavour to select the most breed appropriate judge for these dogs. (Note: I am in rare breeds only). This result has lead to more group and show placements for our rare breeds.

If things got even more 'complicated' or 'time consuming' re: showing - I honestly don't think I would have the time for SD anymore.

I have been playing this game for 9 years so I would hate to leave because the game became 'un-ejoyable.'

I know that everyone is different and we are all entitled to our own opinions. This is mine

Wow, I got a lot more feedback then I expected from this, thanks for your input guys.

Anyway, allow me to touch on some concerns:

Kievan, your point is well taken, however the things one would be doing to be obtain achievements would already be increasing ones prestige, I’m not sure it would be necessary for the rewards themselves to also boost prestige. I wouldn’t be against more difficult to achieve goals coming with a little reward of some kind, but this is more about just getting acknowledgment for the things you are probably doing anyway.

You bring up a fair point about the three judge system too, but it’s not something that I hadn’t already considered when I suggested it. As for how it would work rhondaline already answered you for me.
Basically you would be able to see the judges at all three levels when entering the show and it would be up to you rather you want to choose a handler that will be more likely to net you a win at breed level or take a risk and select a handler that may not win the dog the breed, but if the dog win the breed they will be much better set up to do well in the group. It’s all about risk/reward, and adding extra layers of strategy/unpredictability just to mix things up. Those who know the judges well should already know the handlers that are common to all their lists, but even if you don’t this only takes moments to look up. If a owner handler judge was in the mix, well that just makes it all the more interesting since you would then have to consider rather it would be worth going without to have a better shot under them, or placing a handler for better looks from the other two judges. If everyone used a handler for an owner handler judge, well they would still be on equal footing for the most part at that point wouldn’t they? Yet, this could have the side effect of helping rarer breeds to better placements that show owner handled at breed level, and that’s not a bad thing.

CS, I know what you mean about how large stud lists all appearing at once could be a little overwhelming, but at the same time, it would still be more convenient to see all their traits at once laid out table style, because if you are like me you are likely to look through a large number of those studs anyway, trying to find a perfect match. I like your idea too though, so to that I say; why not have both? It could be among the options you toggle in settings. Being able to sort studs would also be nice, and I don’t think that sorting by traits would dampen the strategy since most people will look over all the dogs with that in mind anyway and all it would be doing is shaving some time off the process without really adding any major advantage.


Dalkeith, this is why I said it would probably be better to add this as a type of show rather than replacing the whole show system with it. Maybe it could be a special show that would be limited to one a night much like specialty and obedience shows. In this way it would be there to add another layer and strategy while at the same time not altering the whole system, and forcing people to change the way they play. It would not be essential to enter this type of show that way, but would be an option for those that are interested. It would add a bit more fun factor to checking results, but wouldn’t have to be a major change to the game. There’s nothing wrong with having options, variety is the spice of life after all. Also, in this way it could be sort of a test run to see how viably it would actually work and such.

Since no one would be forced to enter it would solve yours and others similar dilemmas of lacking the time or concern to try entering. Win-win I’d say. For the record I also enter as many dogs as I can into show and it takes less than ten minutes currently to do so, if I multiplied that by five accounts it would take around 40-50 minutes spent entering. That doesn’t seem like a demanding amount of time, but then again I have all the judges’ preferences and handler preferences memorized so it does shave time off in that way. Still, I doubt it would add too much more to the time to enter one three judge show a night, since most people don’t stuff all their dogs into a single show.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your opinions all, I enjoyed reading them, and thanks for remaining civil for the most part, even though you were a bit rude unnamed basic poster, and you could have been a bit less sarcastic Kievan, but you are all entitled to your opinions and you all made great points as I don’t mind people not sharing my opinions as long as they state why they don’t in a courteous matter.

I never claimed that these suggestions are original and I apologize if I stepped on any toes, this was not my intent. These are just really things I’d like to see added to the game. If I get enough positive feedback I’d be happy to put these things to a vote. I noticed that rhondacline already started a poll about GCH levels, but personally I’d like that among other things to be included in an achievements system that is all encompassing, and could include all these commendations that people have been pining for and more all at once.

I'm being called a miserable so-and-so by someone who won't even show their face and my response to their misunderstanding is sarcastic... This is why I'm going and gone

GL with your suggestions, and happy playing!

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Last edited by Kievan Kennels on 5/13/2015 7:41:15 AM

The anonymous poster was me, no idea why it showed without my kennel name, or why it reverts to basic user. I guess it just timed out before I'd finished writing. It wasn't an intentional attempt to hide my identity - sorry.

I'll support any and all suggestions that get implemented, I just love the game and devote altogether too much time to it.



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Last edited by mournebrake on 5/13/2015 6:32:56 PM

Kievan, I’m so sorry if I offended you in any way, this was not my intent, and I apologize. When I said you were being a bit sarcastic I was referring to your original response to me not to the anonymous poster, sometimes it’s really difficult to tell if people are being sarcastic over the internet, but I guess it did come of a little like that, but I honestly met no harm when I said that. After all, where I come from calling someone sarcastic isn’t considered an insult, and some people even take pride in being sarcastic. I called the other poster out for being rude to you, what more do you want?

I agree that the name calling was uncalled for, but you can’t let a single insult get you down so much. Giving into people like that allows them to win, and if you’re always leaving when things get a little intense than you are going to find yourself having a difficult time no matter where you go on the internet, because believe me when I say people on other sites may say far, far worse things. The internet is full of people who will go out of their way to destroy you over a single thing you didn’t that made them upset, compared to that what happened in this thread is nothing.

The best thing to do when someone insults you is shrug it off and move on, or you will always find yourself getting beat down. I’m sorry you are leaving over it, I never met for this thread to have any kind of mudslinging involved it was just supposed to be a simple discussion, and the fact that your opinion was different than mind didn’t bother me at all; I respect everyone’s opinion. Period. Even if I don’t agree with it. Mournebrake, you should apologize to Kievan for what you said, name calling is uncalled for, and apparently what you said really got to them.

Anyway, back on topic; should any of this be put to a vote as a poll?

I think the two updates most likely to get the votes for approval from 'the masses' and the two easiest for Jeff to implement are the Achievements and the 'Compare Outside Studs' - so I would say to start with one of those.

For the 'Compare Outside Studs' I really like the idea of selecting 3-5 (insert any number here) studs from the list (with a tic box) and then those studs come up on the comparison screen with your bitch. (Just like comparison shopping online at Best Buy <g> ... So I feel like this one is ready to be voted on.

On the Achievements, I think we (all players who really want to see some updates) might have better luck getting the votes and taking the update to Jeff - if we #1 nail down exactly how we want the system to work ... Is it going to be pop ups and a page with text - "Achievement 33: Finished 25 Champions - Completed 16 May 2015" - or is it going to be ribbons/rosettes/badges/trophies - on the Merit page?
I think we should also go ahead and put together the preliminary list of achievements...

I feel like there is a better chance of seeing the proposal approved and implemented if at least 90% of the 'leg work' is done up front.

As much as I would love to see the 3 judge shows
1. I don't think it will get the votes
2. I don't think it would be as easy for Jeff to implement.
3. I think there are other 'updates' that are needed where all of the 'framework' is already in place. (Obedience)

I do love the hope and excitement I feel over the possibility of the updates that are being discussed. It definitely adds some energy and life to the game. It makes it feel like the game is moving forward.

Please can I put my weight behind the rosettes/ribbons/badges idea - they only need to be small ones but different coloured maybe dependant on the achievement.

Can I mention the fact that we can't actually access an all-breed list of Merit Sires or Dams so can I add to the list of suggestions and say I'd like such a list made available.

I'd like to know who was the Toip Merit Sire of all time all breeds and how many offspring contributed to him getting this award, same with Top Dam.

You’re most right rhondacline; one thing at a time is best.

Alright, since I think everyone who was interested in this tread has already looked it over, I’m going to go ahead and start a separate discussion thread to brainstorm, and try to come up with all the achievements, get the community involved to see what people would like.

We should hopefully be able to figure all this out, but it will take some work for sure. I agree that this has a much better shot at succeeding if we as a community do all the non code related work for Jeff.

So with that I’m off to go post, thanks to all for your input, I appreciate it.

Also great idea RockBottom, and I agree mournebrake, that could work.