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Author Topic : List of White Producing Poodles?
 iDazzle
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8/26/2015 6:50:06 PM reply with quote send message to iDazzle Object to Post   

this post has been edited 3 time(s)

So, last night, I had a pair of random White poodle bitches pop up in a CreamXApricot breeding and I did a little digging around in their gene code. While the game says that 30% of all poodles should be white, it appears to actually be the most difficult coat color to produce as it requires the sire or Dam to be ChCh and the other to be ChCh or CCh, as well as both to be double recessive dilutes in d(dd) and e(ee) and possess at least one dominat k(Kk, KK).

That's tripling up on recessive genes, and only 3 gene combinations out of the dozens in Standard Poodles will ever produce a white.

I've been looking to bring white into my lines because it bothers me that the stereotypical Standard Poodle (at least in my mind) is a color that's essentially void in the current line of dogs but as we can't see the genome of dogs, locating dogs that have this 'perfect storm' of traits isn't easy.

The breeding that produced these was completely random.

That all being said, if anyone is aware of a dog or bitch in recent memory that has Whites in its pedigree or the ability to produce them, could they provide a link? Thus far, I know for a fact that this boy has the necessary recessive genes and will produce whites if paired with the correct bitch:

www.showdog.com/dog.aspx?id=14170397


This is the dam that threw the whites (so is also recessive in the necessary places):

www.showdog.com/dog.aspx?id=14177492

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Last edited by iDazzle on 8/26/2015 7:01:08 PM
 iDazzle
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8/26/2015 8:40:02 PM reply with quote send message to iDazzle Object to Post

www.showdog.com/dog.aspx?id=14266910

There's also this boy. This kennel in particular seems to have the real only established white line that I'm aware of.
 Beach Dunes
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8/26/2015 9:44:34 PM reply with quote send message to Beach Dunes Object to Post

Ive never understood the color genetics as well but Ive been wanting whites forever. I've messaged many people about them. I have 3 whites in one of my kennels that are lower SOP. (Grand Strand Kennels). I will try breeding those lsited above. Thanks!
 iDazzle
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8/27/2015 1:24:23 AM reply with quote send message to iDazzle Object to Post

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Well, essentially for a trait that is recessive (marked by lower case letters in their gene code) to be passed on to offspring, both parents must possess recessive genes. Let's take the letter E for example. In genetics, it's a lot more involved than 1 basic gene (it takes multiple to create a trait) but we'll use the bare minimum to demonstrate.

The horizonal line represents one parent and the vertical is the other. In that case, both parents are recessive, so those are the only traits they have to pass on. This basically means that 4 out of 4 offspring will have the specific trait that "ee" dictates.

e e
e ee| ee
---- |----
e ee| ee



However, take a set of parents where one has a dominant trait in the Es, and the other parent is recessive. The dominant traits are marked by capitals. This basically means that 4 out of 4 off spring will be "Ee". They will display the dominant trait (in this case, NOT white) but they are a "carrier" for white with their lower case e. They can still pass it on to their offspring, they just won't be white themselves.

E E
e Ee | Ee
----- | -----
e Ee | Ee



Now take two parents that are Ee and cross them. The first of the puppies would not be white, nor would it be a carrier of the recessive (lower case) white trait. Its offspring would never be white. The second and third puppies are an Ee, which we've learned are not white but have the chance to pass on white to their off spring. The 4th puppy (a 25% chance) is completely white as he or she is ee.

E e
E EE | Ee
----- | -----
e Ee | ee


I'm not a biology teacher so I apologize for the crudeness, but essentially traits in all animals can be broken down that way. Genetics has always been fascinating to me.


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Last edited by iDazzle on 8/27/2015 1:26:21 AM
 Beach Dunes
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8/27/2015 1:33:01 PM reply with quote send message to Beach Dunes Object to Post

I knew for the most part about how the genetics work ( I think/thought, but your explanation helps even more ) but m not sure how to figure out the letters behind the current dog that I have?
 iDazzle
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8/28/2015 8:37:47 AM reply with quote send message to iDazzle Object to Post

When colors were implemented in the game, most breeds had long discussions in their forums about how, exactly, to break down the colors for their breed. I went back through our forum postings but could find no such post (though I might have easily missed it) but it was years ago so could have easily been lost over time.

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