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Author Topic : Co-owner Problems
 Majestic Wonders
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4/3/2016 11:00:01 AM reply with quote send message to Majestic Wonders Object to Post   

So, I've been helping a few beginners out with their first show dog. I've trained the people as well as the dog for two years now. They have 14 points on the bitch and just need that last little point to finish her Championship. Now they're looking to breed her. The problem is that their breeder is also a co-owner. I've never co-owned dogs with people, or if I did, it was just incase something were to happen so the dog didn't end up in a shelter.

Their story:
When we first picked up Abbie (the bitch), we were asked to sign a contract stating that she was to be spayed at 6 months old and was registered under a limited registration. Once she hit 6 months, the breeder wanted her shown. She asked us to put her name on Abbie so that she could show her in breeder/owner/handler because we weren't sure if she was going to show her or not.The breeder signed off to get a normal registration so we could show but we never signed another contract. Its been two years now and the breeder has not once shown interest in the dog or even showing her. A few months ago we talked and wanted to experience having a litter. We are certainly not in it for the money, however, it seems like our breeder is. She has quit her job and her only source of income now is puppies. When we approached her yesterday about having a litter, she quickly made it a point to say that she is entitled to a puppy and money.

Although there is no valid contract, does a co-owner have these rights? In my other breeds, a puppy wouldn't be that big of a deal but since the average litter size for the breed is 3, it would really be bad if they only got 1 and had to give it to the "Co-owner" that isn't willing to pay any expenses. They're not looking to breed more than once, they just know they have a really nice bitch that could offer even better from a litter. I was just wondering if anyone else had any experience with this.

Thank you!
 Tizzy Too
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4/3/2016 11:37:31 AM reply with quote send message to Tizzy Too Object to Post

Big mistake not getting it all in writing. I co-own both my bitches with their breeder and they are completely 'my" dogs except for puppies. I did not pay for my girls despite the fact that they were both the "pick" of their litters and have had the pleasure of owning, loving and showing some of the best representatives of their breed. The breeders pay all breeding-related expenses and own the litter but I can have my pick at any time. But that was the understanding up front! I didn't buy a pet puppy who just happened to turn out. If your dog's breeder is paying the stud fee, she would get at "stud" puppy back but since there has been no financial consideration up until this point, I honestly don't see where she gets anything.
And really, if there are such small litters, how can she "live off puppies"? The cost of raising a litter is exhorbinant if done responsibly. Has the bitch had all her health clearances performed? If not she shouldn't be bred. The stud dog will also have to have had all his clearances too (thus the higher cost for a good stud's fee). The vet costs for even a healthy litter are significant and you certainly can't leave the house for the first 2 weeks of the puppies lives so need to take that into consideration too.
 PPvallhunds
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4/3/2016 1:31:27 PM reply with quote send message to PPvallhunds Object to Post

Not sure how registration works there as I knows it's diffrent to the UK.
As the singed and agreed she is not for breeding here unless they got the breeder/co-owner to agree to allow it they would be stuck being unable to register the litter.
I've been told the sales contracts are more enforceable in usa than uk if that is true they would still be bound to the contract they singed wither or not it's morally right or wrong of the breeder to make those demands they did buy her as a non breeding dog.
 Astoria Kennel
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4/3/2016 4:30:16 PM reply with quote send message to Astoria Kennel Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

She's not entitled to a puppy or any money from puppy sales just because she is listed as a co-owner, HOWEVER, she will have to sign off on registration paperwork on the pups.

I suggest to let her know they'd like to breed the bitch, but only under terms x, y, and z. And in return the breeder can have X. Write it out, have both parties sign, and have both parties keep a copy of the contract. Make sure to state that if both parties uphold their responsibilities listed within the contract that both parties agree to sign off on all registration papers of the puppies.

Perhaps you can offer the breeder 2nd pick or the price of one puppy - now would be a good time to negotiate the terms of her signing off the bitch too, if possible. Let her know that you're not set on breeding her if it doesn't work out in her favor - after all, she can't force you to breed her as a co-owner. If she wants it to happen, and gain from it, she will agree to your terms. If not, see what it'll take to get her to sign off - or breed her and hope that she will sign the papers.

*edited* If it were me, I would offer the breeder to split ALL breeding and puppy care related expenses 50/50 and split the puppy money 50/50 as well, in exchange for her signing off the bitch OR agreeing that she releases any rights to all future litters

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Last edited by Astoria Kennel on 4/3/2016 4:32:06 PM
 residential5
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5/4/2016 5:59:38 AM reply with quote send message to residential5 Object to Post

As a quick FYI the AKC does not get involved in co-owner contract issues. Either the papers are signed or they aren't. That is all you can expect from the registering body. You would have to get an injunction in legal court to get the papers signed.

I personally think raising a litter and dealing with all this is not worth the effort, plus if she's quitting work to breed puppies I wouldn't want my dog reputation attached to that kind of person.
 Kalynda
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5/4/2016 12:42:30 PM reply with quote send message to Kalynda Object to Post

I am not surprised - this is often a condition of co-ownership. If you have nothing in writing, now is the time to do so.
 Petite four kennel
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6/10/2016 1:28:06 AM reply with quote send message to Petite four kennel Object to Post

What breed do you have

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The Kennel Club (UK) system, which is also used by the Australian National Kennel Council[1] and in other countries, is considered the most difficult to earn a title under.