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I'm new to showing and have been checking all results in all breeds to try and get a handle on why judges do what!
But I can't understand the results at the show Mostly Autumn3 judges by A. Lara.
No offence to any owner but how did this dog win the group and get BIS (SOP 93.50) when the dog it beat in the group (SOP 98.30) had the same top handler and appears way better?

The answer quite simply is that it's the judge's choice at the end of the show
A dog's SOP is not always the be all and end all when it comes to showing. Some judges rather certain breeds, just as some rather certain traits.

Take for example (using my own kennel dogs.) I have a Husky boy who has never done that well in the show ring, couldn't win a BOB to save his life 99% of the time, yet when I showed him under a certain judge twice, he won BIS both times and then went back to his casually useless showing style.

The dog that won the show that you are talking about, has also won 12 other best in shows, so he is a rather special dog in his own right. Showing takes a little bit to get your head around

Thanks, seeing those results, it's now going to be even harder to FH, eek

The thing that I would add is this -

Watch which judges give your breed group placements. Those are the judges that you want to show under.

Show Placements and Group Placements have less to do with SOP and more to do with the judge's trait preferences and 'quirks' and BREED.

(SOP was a player 'invention' - judges don't look at SOP at all)

If you pick a single judge and look through his Group Placements - you will find that they are very consistent on which breeds they put up. (Which is why it is SO important for us to get our Judge rotation back into play.)

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posted by rhondacline
(SOP was a player 'invention' - judges don't look at SOP at all)

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You mean, all these years that I have obsessed over SOP have been a lie...

I always knew individual traits were more important but I also thought that SOP was at least looked at. I dunno how to take this new knowledge.

Alexandria

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posted by Lace Dreams
You mean, all these years that I have obsessed over SOP have been a lie...

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No, SOP works as a helping hand for showing you that you are improving your breeding stock, it just doesn't guarantee that your 98.80 dog is going to beat your 98.50 dog.

Which is another reason why I just session and show most my dogs that I'm keeping. You learn soon enough which judges like them and who it's worth showing under.

As for what to FH in lower SOP breed, keep your pups with the strongest points to breed standard.

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Last edited by Grasslans on 11/14/2016 6:38:58 PM

I had a dog in another kennel about a year or so ago that had a low SOP for the breed and that dog could not lose. He won consistently. He is a true example of the fact that the numbers you see are not the dog's actual numbers, just close or an average. Don't really know how that works but this dog was a good example of it. He actually got his last GCH title the day he aged out of being able to show. And didn't produce worth a darn.

Here is a good example of judge preference to certain dogs...

I don't know how it really works either, but my boy has been winning the Group over much better dogs lately since I put him in shows with certain Judges.

www.showdog.com/dog.aspx?id=15200067

Go figure.....

Starting to see this myself. I have two full sisters 94.7 and 95 SOP. The lower one has beaten the pants off her sister has finished already and gone 2nd in Group. So that judge has been earmarked as liking the breed.
Is it that a 9. 5 trait could actually be 9.599 or a 9.500, but we can't see the decimal points?



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Last edited by Star Shiine on 11/24/2016 2:14:02 AM

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posted by Star Shiine
Starting to see this myself. I have two full sisters 94.7 and 95 SOP. The lower one has beaten the pants off her sister has finished already and gone 2nd in Group. So that judge has been earmarked as liking the breed.
Is it that a 9. 5 trait could actually be 9.599 or a 9.500, but we can't see the decimal points?



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Last edited by Star Shiine on 11/24/2016 2:14:02 AM

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Yep. Exactly.

Ahaaa! This game is awesome!