.com Forum · Alpha Dog Forum

Is this allowed?
www.showdog.com/shows/show_entries.aspx?show=Russells%20Happy%20Trails&breed=Borzoi

Unfortunately yes.

You can enter as many dogs as you like. In this case the dogs with the handlers will get the points. But if entries are like that a lot it will result in a change to the Breed's Schedule of Points.

But the player is not breaking any rules.

I don't understand the point of this. If you have handlers and you stack the shows to get a major, that at least makes sense. But to enter all those dogs with pretty much no chance to get any points, why? Is this person a newbie who doesn't understand?

Two people doing it here:

www.showdog.com/shows/show_entries.aspx?show=Russells%20Happy%20Trails&breed=Collie

I guess the only thing we can do is not use their studs or buy their pups.

Very unethical in my opinion.

Greg

look at West Highland Whites, Border Collies, Dalmatians, English Springers, Goldies, Newfoundlands, Pharaoh Hounds, Portuguese Pointers, in the same show.

Spitz and tibetan mastiffs in another show. Newfies in yet another. Bull Terriers in another.

The entry numbers are going up and down. This has to be a hack. Many of these entries are showing lots of champions.

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Last edited by SilknT on 3/28/2017 6:15:12 AM

Tibetan mastiffs are always stacked and more or less only go to one show a day. Though at least a good dog can still do okay even without a decent handler.

Thanks Grasslans - I'm seeing boogeymen everywhere. Maybe a lot of breeds normally stack 1 show and I don't normally look.

I guess to look on the bright side, it's easy to get majors on those breeds...

I don't get the motivation behind it though, it must be costing a fortune and they aren't going to win anything unless no one else enters. It's obvious several of these kennels are related.

Weird.

So I looked at some of these kennels. They have finished quite a few dogs when no one competes against them. The only way it will stop is if they have competition with handlers at every show and they stop winning. Might as well take advantage of the big entries to get some majors of your own before the point scale goes through the roof. I don't have a problem with entering a few dogs, but what is the point when you go over what is required for 5 pts?

This was currently affecting ECS. We had two kennels join us recently only to breed massively and excessively and enter all their dogs in the shows. This time they would put handlers on every single one of them but it wasn't like these dogs had low sop or anything, they were very competitive, so no one would enter in those shows thus they were competing by themselves. Both of them had recently left which makes me think, those kennels are either run by the same person or in the works together. But the damage has left behind, now you need 18, I repeat 18 dogs to get 5 point major! How ridiculous is that! The average entry in our breed is like 8 dogs maybe even less.

I was only around, we have another new breeder who looks like they are always stacking up the shows with all handlers. This one seems to be unrelated to the other two but still, it's honestly annoying. I don't mind it per say, I will occasionally stack a show (with no handlers) to see how my dogs are against each other, it gives me any idea which one to FH. But for these people, it's every day! I'm just happy they do it on the most expensive shows of the day, I really don't bother with those $10,$15,$20 entry unless it's a specialty.

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Last edited by Shadowstorm Kennels on 3/28/2017 10:26:40 AM

The most dogs I've ever put in a show was four and if it was a judge that prefered handlers, I used them. Sometimes, I might enter six dogs in a show, but some will be bitches and some dogs.

I, too, will put my dogs in a show if there are no other entries just to see which ones are the better dogs, but I accept the caveat that I may very well have someone come along with a better dog and rightfully win.

I find it funny though how in the rules on this site, the Admin mentions Horseland and cheating and how rampant it is there, but yet, this kind of obvious unethical activity is allowed. Tell me, has anyone ever seen a real life kennel in a real life show bring 12 to 20 dogs? I never have.

Blackie

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posted by Cajun K9
The most dogs I've ever put in a show was four and if it was a judge that prefered handlers, I used them. Sometimes, I might enter six dogs in a show, but some will be bitches and some dogs.

I, too, will put my dogs in a show if there are no other entries just to see which ones are the better dogs, but I accept the caveat that I may very well have someone come along with a better dog and rightfully win.

I find it funny though how in the rules on this site, the Admin mentions Horseland and cheating and how rampant it is there, but yet, this kind of obvious unethical activity is allowed. Tell me, has anyone ever seen a real life kennel in a real life show bring 12 to 20 dogs? I never have.

Blackie

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Major building is real in real life but the most ive seen is like 2 class dogs, 4 class bitches and 2 specials. Which is a lot of money. But not nearly to SD level of numbers

I see nothing wrong with entering dogs in a show the day before that has 0 entries if you need a few points to finish a dog but yeah I know of situation where they enter so many dogs it takes 12 or 13 for a major and there are only 3 or 4 kennels in that breed I feel like that is unfair enteries

I see nothing wrong with entering dogs in a show the day before that has 0 entries if you need a few points to finish a dog but yeah I know of situation where they enter so many dogs it takes 12 or 13 for a major and there are only 3 or 4 kennels in that breed I feel like that is unfair enteries

Oops sorry for double post

I am in some breeds that do not enter any dogs if I did not stack I would not finish anything plus I always point my high quality dogs

Generally speaking I think the problem is not so much stacking if you need to but overstacking such that it drives the point schedule up. All you need is 3 points twice to make that champion. But there always seems to be a few 'spoilers' in the game.

Exactly. If a breed needs 6 or 7 for 5 points, why enter 9 or 10?

Gotta wonder about people who make they effort to earn a championship by competing with themselves only....

While it's annoying - I pity these folks - not a fun game and it must be a miserable way to live your life.

K

I do understand entering several dogs to finish some in breeds where there are very few kennels, B&T Coonhounds and Rat Terriers come to mind. *however*, I also think a good thing to do is to encourage more people to participate in those breeds. I have gotten out of a couple of breeds because it's no fun playing against myself. It doesn't mean anything when my dogs finish, but the only competition were my other dogs.

Blackie

These posts are getting quite boring and whiny. This is a game and we are all entitled to play it how we want to.

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posted by Kalynda
Gotta wonder about people who make they effort to earn a championship by competing with themselves only....

While it's annoying - I pity these folks - not a fun game and it must be a miserable way to live your life.

K

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Thank you so much for your pity, but it's wasted on me. I compete against myself almost every night and I'm neither miserable or unhappy with playing the game.

I've been playing almost 10 years and until this year I had never bred a merit dog so that was my goal for this year. I've now bred several in all my kennels. In order to do that in dying breeds I competed mostly against myself.

The second reason I compete against myself if that I love the dying breeds. All of my breeds have less than a handful of breeders.

I've had Silky Terriers since the beginning. They have never been popular. I can't remember a time there was ever more than 2 or 3 people in the breed. I choose not to show my Silkies against the other 2 breeders because I'm working on some very specific goals. I was the first player to breed a Silky Terrier with stats that were all under 11 and with no greens. That was my goal and I achieved it, however by doing that I am not a good 3 points behind the other dogs in the game. That's okay though, it's how I want to play the game. However I have sponsored dozens of specialty shows that I did not benefit from at all, I sponsored them and entered them knowing full well my dogs would be beaten.

Last year I started in American Foxhounds and got very discouraged as we were having to use starter bitches and way outdated studs because the one kennel with "modern" dogs ignored our pleas and would not even answer our emails with so much as a "thank you, but I don't sell dogs" What a way to promote your breed. If Rizona hadn't stuck with it Americans would be pretty dead. I decided to give the breed another chance and I am now the breeder/owner of the top SOP Foxhound. However me and the other two players still choose to enter separate shows because we each have our own goals. However we freely share studs, build majors, and help each other out. We all sponsor specialty shows and we each win our share competing against each other. Right now we are working on achieving merit status for one of my fellow breeder's dogs. So yes we are competing against our selves in order to finish dogs.

I could go into details on my other main breed, but I think you all see the point I'm making. However if you look at the show results for my breeds you will see that even though I compete against myself mostly during regular shows, when it comes to the World Cup or the monthly specialties, my American Foxhounds and Maltese can win even against other breeders.

Instead of whining, use that time to set goals and work towards them. Have you ever heard the expression "beat them at their own game"?

I don't understand why you are complaining, I took a look at some of the links and from what I saw, the ones complaining are the ones with the good handlers for the show, so what's the problem? They are just adding dogs towards majors which in the long run will benefit you.


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Last edited by Cherokee Hills on 3/29/2017 11:25:06 PM