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Author Topic : overwhelmed...
 Phantom Prophet
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10/10/2017 7:40:07 PM reply with quote send message to Phantom Prophet Object to Post   


Where did I go wrong?

I researched this breed (large guardian breed) for like 10 years before I decided to get one. My online friend who I'd been chatting with for a couple years had a young adult become available who I thought looked very promising. I have always been interested in breeding (hence, SD) but didn't want to start yet so I went for a male first.

We talked about him. I knew he was going to take time and effort to get through his anxiety. His past was somewhat unknown. He was owned by someone as a pup and then the owner and breeder decided he should go back to the breeder. I was under the impression he had anxiety (I pictured him running into the corner and peeing) and that it would "take time" to help him. I knew that and was very aware of that when I went to go get him. I wanted to show and eventually do sports, but closer to the time I went to pick him up, the breeder told me he didn't really like being touched. I chalked that up to the "reserved temperament" I told the breeder I preferred.

This was going to be my first dog of this breed, and I am really unsure as to why the breeder felt I was the right person for him.

Within the first day, I found that I had just purchased for full pop a highly aggressive dog. I've never seen aggression like this before. Attacked the border guard through the window and lunged to attack my dad once I got back to the city. That was the first time in 19 months my dad could ever be near him, and hasn't touched him since.

I've seen 3 trainers, two of which specialize in these types of breeds.

The dog has a debilitating genetic health problem running through both sides of his pedigree, we now know. He doesn't have it, but he can't be bred obviously. So, a year into owning him, I felt he was ready to be looked over (not touched) by a vet. Took him, and we talked for about 10 minutes and suddenly he went for her. I hurt my shoulder pulling him back.

On one hand, he is an amazing, sweet, gentle, obedient dog with me and two of my family members, but he does not accept the presence of any one else and has a very low tolerance for any other living thing.

This is fine and dandy for a guardian only dog... but that was never the primary purpose I wanted him, though it was obviously a big part, but I don't want my dog to hurt people, and the last year and a half has been me constantly worried something is going to happen, he's going to get away from me somehow, and someone's going to die.

So, I'm taking him back to his breeder (if I can even get over the border again). I've wondered whether I should put him down. I am taking him back to his breeder as the second last resort. There's no refund. Nothing as a sort of "payback" for probably extending his life as no one wanted him before I took him (probably because they knew what he was actually like) and for all the intense training.

So, I'm out $10k, out a dog, incredibly upset and sad. This experience made me not want a dog ever again, nevermind breed them, which was a passion and interest I had for over 15 years.

In between, the breeder called me a liar every time I said I didn't know he was aggressive.

I mean, I don't live out in the boonies. I don't need/want a dog that wants to eat people. Why would I?!? Especially as a first time breed owner? Why would I lie?

I've learned a lot, I'm not 100% regretful, but I feel screwed over a thousand times by this person and now I have to part with the dog who I actually bonded with after about a year.

Sorry that you had to read that but if you did, cookies, and can you please give your advice? (I know now not to buy an adult dog I don't know!)
 All Star Acres
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10/10/2017 8:11:55 PM reply with quote send message to All Star Acres Object to Post

Before I say anything else, please, know this is not your fault. Don't feel guilty, you've done more for this dog than anyone else.

Now first off, I don't know a shred about this breeder, but from the way your post reads, this is not a breeder I would want to be working with in the future.

A dog with issues as severe as this one should never have left the breeder once she had him back from the first owner. It's impossible to say where his temperament problems stem from-- genetics, poor socialization in the first home, a combination of those... who knows.

I have worked with rescue dogs and bred dogs over the years and have made the unpopular decision to euthanize aggressive dogs (rescue dogs, not the well bred ones). In my personal opinion, it is irresponsible & unreasonable to expect a "typical" home to be saddled with a dog that I personally feel is dangerous, or a dog that has the capacity to become dangerous. What I mean by that is there are some dogs who hadn't actually sunken their teeth into anyone, but that was ONLY because we picked up on the behavior issues from the get go and were hyper vigilant in preventing a problem from occurring.

You can work with behaviorists and trainers to an extent, but some dogs are just wired wrong. I don't know your dog and it's impossible to gauge on an internet posting alone of course, but it sounds like you have given this your all and you truly fear the potential damage this dog can do. I personally would have the dog euthanized. If he goes back to the breeder, what's that going to do? I would worry he will simply be passed off on the next unsuspecting person, not to mention it's going to be very stressful on him.

It is terribly stressful to live in constant fear with a dog like you're describing. It's a level of difficulty far beyond what most people would ever want to handle. I am so sorry that your experience has been so awful. What breed of dog are we talking? Don't give up on dogs quite yet. Do what you need to with this one, give yourself the time you need, and then start over with a puppy that you can raise yourself. Talking to the breed club for your breed would be a good place to find a recommended breeder.
 ESAN
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10/10/2017 11:56:53 PM reply with quote send message to ESAN Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

user wiped their message

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Last edited by ESAN on 10/11/2017 2:23:14 AM
 Phantom Prophet
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10/11/2017 2:21:18 AM reply with quote send message to Phantom Prophet Object to Post

He's not guarding. He's reacting suddenly when he feels someone is nervous or when he feels nervous. He has guarded me (after my okay) and it's completely different, much more controlled and tempered and not a fierce explosion on neutral grounds.

I appreciate your comments, though I am not "giving up". I've given all I can give and it is still not working.


 
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10/11/2017 4:41:13 AM reply with quote send message to Object to Post edit post

I completely understand. I had a very similar experience with a Kerry Blue Terrier. I was relatively new to the breed, but not a first time owner. I am a vet tech and have worked with dogs with behavior issues. I wanted a bitch to show and possibly breed. I had a pet male from this breeder and he was wonderful.
This was a singleton pup. She was was feisty to put it mildly. At six weeks, she would growl and fuss when she was picked up. I chalked it up to being a singleton. When I brought her home, I worked with her and we made great strides, but there was always that underlying spark that would ignite at any moment. At 12 was old, she bit me in the face when I bent over to pick her up. Stitches in the nose for me. I refused to give up. I thought that I was just not trying hard enough.
I had another dog at the time. The pup got along with him, though was very bossy.. As she matured, she began to attack him randomly. Nasty fights. Wounded dogs, wounded me. Still I persevered.
I began to show her. She did well and seemed to enjoy having a job. She was sweet with me. At about 18 months old she bang growling at the judges. That was the end of her show career.
I was constantly on guard and tense. I had to watch her body language diligently. She would attack my other dog out of the blue, if I was not paying attention.
I consulted behaviorists. I was doing everything right and still had a devil puppy. The breeder would not take her back and was in denial about her issues. This saddened me, since we had a good relationship up til this. I was advised to rehome her. I just could not in good conscience, put this ticking time bomb into someone else's home. She was going to seriously hurt or kill something or someone else.
At the age of 18 months, I had her euthanized. I held her, she wagged her tail. She loved and trusted me. It was the kindest thing that I could do.
I beat myself up about it for a long time. I finally came to terms with the fact that she was just not "wired right". I did the best I could and gave her a great life for the short time she was here. It was probably a blessing that she ended up with me. I'm not sure how she would have fared if she had been with anyone else. I rest easy now knowing that I did right by her.
I lost money, got injured badly several times, lost faith in a breeder and friend and ended up with a broken heart.
I feel for you and understand. The only advice I can give is that you should consider what may happen to the dog if you return it to the breeder. It may be better for you to euthanize, rather than have the breeder turn him loose on another unsuspecting owner.
There are just some dogs that cannot be rehabbed. It is not our fault. Not all dogs can be saved. Sorry to go on forever, but your story hit home with me. I felt you might benefit from hearing mine.
 DoogieG6521
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10/11/2017 4:42:18 AM reply with quote send message to DoogieG6521 Object to Post

Whoopsie, timed out on that reply.
 kc meadows
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10/13/2017 9:44:41 AM reply with quote send message to kc meadows Object to Post

Please please don't feel so horrible you sound like a very knowledgable person you did your homework. I feel that's why that breeder mislead you knowing full well how committed you would be. I had a similar issue I like lots of people worked as a dog groomer in a veterinarians office tried rescuing cast away dogs more than I would like to admit. I would put my time and energy in either keeping them myself or correcting any issues and rehoming them my vet bills were over the top even with my 50% discount but I had a beautiful white boxer someone brought in and never picked up. He would attack other dogs without a single reason and I mean a full blown attack I finally had to make the decision to put him down when he attacked a child. Thank god I was right there and was able to grab him in just the nick of time. I think you have done everything possible. Also if you couldn't correct the problem with all the love and patience you put into the issue. You are making the best decision. My heart really goes out too you. It sounds like you have done all that you can. It is sad that this breeder took advantage of your good heart.
 kc meadows
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10/13/2017 9:46:03 AM reply with quote send message to kc meadows Object to Post

And lastly I think like everyone else that unfortunately this dog is just wired wrong.
 Phantom Prophet
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10/13/2017 3:00:44 PM reply with quote send message to Phantom Prophet Object to Post

Thank you all for your responses and stories. I appreciate them more than you know.
 gaylanstudio
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10/13/2017 5:26:15 PM reply with quote send message to gaylanstudio Object to Post

I thought I would add this thought too.

If you should decide to make this difficult decision with this dog, there are many other dogs out there that need second chances and probably do not have the issues this one does. By letting this one go, who may never be totally trustworthy, you could give another dog that second chance who might not otherwise get one.
 Lac Lavon Kennels
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10/13/2017 6:49:56 PM reply with quote send message to Lac Lavon Kennels Object to Post

All the love in the world can't "fix" serious behavioral issues. I applaud you for being so responsible and up front with yourself about the real danger this dog could be to someone (or a neighbor pet). A lot of the pet rescue organizations near my house post on their social media about dogs they have taken in to "rehab" and adopt out. I know their hearts are in the right place, but it honestly scares me to imagine some of these animals being placed into the public again. Very sad situations.

I know these things are especially difficult because the dog appears healthy and happy, aside from the behavior issue. Don't beat yourself up though, it sounds like this dog is very sick inaide his head and you have done everything possible to help him.

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Judges are generally certified to judge one or several breeds, usually in the same group, but a few "all-breed" judges have the training and experience to judge large numbers of breeds.