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Topic : Major Changes Coming October 1st |
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this post has been edited 4 time(s)
I stopped trying to make changes to Showdog for a long time because every suggested change created tons of negative feedback regardless of what was suggested. It’s led to a somewhat stagnant simulation that’s in need of change.
In order to increase the difficulty and parity of the game, the following changes have been proposed to be put into effect October 1st...
Dog Death
Dogs will start to die at ages similar to their real life breeds. The earliest dogs will be able to die will be the age of 12-years old. VERY FEW dogs will live past the age of 20-years.
Comments: This is something that simply needs to be done, period. The goal of ShowDog has always been realism, and unfortunately that involves dogs passing away.
Inbreeding Penalties
The ideal level of linebreeding/inbreeding in dogs will be 5%. Any inbreeding above 5% based on the Wright Coefficient for four generations back of a dog will have a negative impact on its quality. We’re going to finally add it and we need to pick a number so we’re going with 5%.
You can find out more about the Wright Coefficient via Google but if you aren’t mathematically inclined, you may have trouble understanding it. Basically it refers to how likely a dog is to receive similar genetic material from both parents.
Inbred dogs will also have shorter life spans.
Comments: We’ve scrapped this before after having trouble coming to an arrangement that satisfied everyone. If we asked 10 different people, we’d hear 12 different opinions of how inbreeding impacts dogs. We have to pick a number that accepts the fact that some inbreeding does help a dog and we’ve gone with 5%.
High Generation Factor
We’re currently on the 39th generation of dogs. The HGF will slow down the progress of genetics as dogs get further and further along.
This factor will be a 1/x type relationship with generations so the difference of the impact between a 39th and 40th generation dog will be MUCH less than the difference of the impact on a 1st vs 2nd generation dog. If you don’t know what an inverse function looks like, check it on Google.
This will make improving starter lines easier and improving long line dogs harder, thus adding a bit of parity to the game for lines that aren’t quite as established.
Comments: We simply have to do something to slow down some of the genetic progress.
Tightening of Ten
It will be harder to breed a ten.
Comments: DO NOT expect your dogs to improve every generation and DO NOT expect a ten bred to a ten to produce a bunch of tens.
Pick of Litter/Runt Effect
There will be larger differences in quality within a litter.
Comments: We currently don’t have runts in the game that are anything but random chance.
Add a Decimal to Ratings
“10.0” rather than “10”
Comments: This might be the only popular change so I’m going to conclude with it.
Final note, please keep the first paragraph of this post in mind if you disagree with one or all of these changes. While some things in this may change if something is suggested in a great manner, staying the same because that's the way it's always been is not an option.
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admin
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We'll have a survey up on Survey Monkey later tonight. |
Aces Wild Kennels
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Love it--changes were needed and I love the fact that now takes a little more application of knowledge to succeed in the game. |
Happy_Hound_Kennel
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Good decisions Jeff. You did what had to be done.
 HHK |
seawood
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Very nice decisions.
No on can stop the Jeffinater! lol
seawood |
Liberty Hills
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this post has been edited 1 time(s)
Yay! I agree with most of it, especially the HGF and the one about showing 10.0 instead of 10. But the other two I have a few questions, I know they won't affect anything, I just would like to know more.
For the dogs dying, what difference exactly does it make to the game now? Does it mean that the gene pool will be smaller, since they have a life-span? Is the purpose to get people moving to the next generation? Then the HGF comes in play, and it is harder to improve on a breed. This is a challenge, and I love it, but will it discourage lots of players, is what I'm wondering...
Also, for the Inbreeding. That one I have an opinion, strongly, since I am breeding my own line. I want it to be my line only, so that means breeding within my kennel. But with the Inbreeding, would I have to breed to other dogs? Yes. But other dogs are 5 or 6 generations higher than my line... That will affect my line a lot, in a way (though it makes the SOP higher) I'd rather it not. I know a lot of people tend to use their own studs, breed within the kennel. Is this to have people communicate, or associate, with other kennels?
Libs |
Blue Bunny
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this post has been edited 1 time(s)
i do have one question, i just bred last night a grandmother to her like grandson once removed, or something, i don't know. anyway, i was just wondering how impacted this litter will be, if at all? What did you mean by 5%? i am not a math person at all.
otherwise, good ideas!
~Char
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Shybade
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I agree that a change is needed, and I have no problems with the changes you mentioned. However (you knew this was coming, right?), a more detailed explaination of the inbreeding issue would be appreciated before it's actually going to go into effect.
The main issue I'm concerned with is if the new inbreeding penalties are going to apply to the dogs that are already on the ground, and inbred. |
Leighshireyorkies
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I'm all for it......think we need this pretty badly. If it isn't fun to show anymore, why bother? This will hopefully help eliminate some issues. |
admin
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this post has been edited 1 time(s)
Here's the link for the survey...
I've closed the survey after 170 responses. Thanks a million for all of the quick input |
Crow2008
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quote
posted by Blue Bunny
i do have one question, when will these changes be put into effect? i just bred last night a grandmother to her like grandson once removed, or something, i don't know. anyway, i was just wondering how impacted this litter will be, if at all?
otherwise, good ideas!
~Char
october 1st |
crochunter44
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how long is a year in this game??? |
Liberty Hills
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And I'm blanking again, how many days on SD equal one year in RL?
Libs |
Luxemburg
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I think it would have been good if those were the rules going into the game. Some of us though have been playing and building lines for quite a while under the old rules which at the time, being the rules, had in-breeding as a perfectly good strategy.
Will there be any grandfather clause for existing in-bred dogs?
Also, what does "5%" translate into in terms of number of inbred dogs and place on the pedigree?
And are you referring to real years or 'showdog years' on doggie death? When might we expect our precious pets to die? |
Crow2008
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I thought 30 days was a year? "1month=1year"
not sure, though. |
Dog-Wood Trails
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this post has been edited 1 time(s)
user wiped their message |
admin
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For (I assume death) what difference exactly does it make to the game now?
It means that dogs over a certain age won’t live long past October 1st.
Does it mean that the gene pool will be smaller, since they have a life-span?
Yes, but that’s not the intention.
Is the purpose to get people moving to the next generation?
No, it’s to get away from the idea of immortal dogs.
But with the Inbreeding, would I have to breed to other dogs?
You wouldn’t have to do anything, it’s your choice. However, this will make having a completely closed kennel a bit tougher.
Is this to have people communicate, or associate, with other kennels?
No, but now that you mention it, that’s a good secondary impact of it.
when will these changes be put into effect?
Dogs born after October 1st.
i was just wondering how impacted this litter will be, if at all?
They won’t have the benefit of immortality but other than that not at all.
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GoGetEm
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My only thought is on the coefficient of inbreeding. A RL dog who has a double grandparent (i.e., the breeding was between "first cousins" has a Wright's Coefficient of 12.5%. In many breeds, this would be considered a good breeding (assuming that the double grandparent was a good dog). In fact, a dog whose only ancestor common to both sides of his pedigree is a double great-grandparent has a Wright's Coefficient of 3.125%.
Many longtime RL breeders hold that a coefficient of inbreeding between 15 and 20% is ideal, with inbreeding depression being associated with values above 20-25%. A coefficient of inbreeding under 5% is virtually unachievable in many RL breeds.
On the other hand, incorporating an inbreeding penalty will tend to make this game more interactive, with breeders being forced to outcross and/or buy and sell more. But I do think that setting the ideal coefficient of inbreeding at 10% would be better. |
Tribeza Kennels
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quote
posted by Blue Bunny
i do have one question, i just bred last night a grandmother to her like grandson once removed, or something, i don't know. anyway, i was just wondering how impacted this litter will be, if at all? What did you mean by 5%? i am not a math person at all.
~Char
As Jeff said the 5% refers to the Wright Coefficient and info on it can be googled. It is up to the users to obtain an understanding of it. He's not going to teach it.
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admin
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how long is a year in this game?
One real month = One sim year
Will there be any grandfather clause for existing in-bred dogs?
Dogs born before October 1st won’t be impacted but their offspring will be.
Also, what does "5%" translate into in terms of number of inbred dogs and place on the pedigree?
Research Wright’s Coefficient. It’s a lot more complex than I can get into here.
And are you referring to real years or 'showdog years' on doggie death?
Showdog years. (otherwise dogs wouldn’t die until about 2015)
When might we expect our precious pets to die?
If you play TH, it will be done somewhat similarly to that. Your extremely old dogs don’t have too much longer and it will also depend on the breed.
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Rosa Blanca Kennels
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Most of these changes sound good, except for the inbreeding one. My concern is for the smaller breeds, where there is not a large gene pool and it will be very difficult to be able to find studs that are unrelated. I feel this could create a wide gap between the more popular and less popular breeds. I have to say I'm fond of the dogs dying. I think it will make the prestige rating more accurate now that people won't be able to have huge RCs. Though I will be sad to see my old specials go. Will I still be able to link to their pages or at some point will they be erased?
-Briana
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8/30/2007 8:14:14 PM
8/30/2007 8:34:29 PM
