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Author Topic : Debarking- What do you think?
 Snow Country
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10/2/2007 8:26:12 PM reply with quote send message to Snow Country Object to Post   

I know someone who is having problems with her Pyr.
She barks way too much and it is starting problems between neighbors. People from a different forum have suggested debarking her.
I highly disagree. I think that is the worst thing you could do. Barking is natural for dogs, to me atleast.
So what do you guys think? They have tried to hush her when she barks but does not listen. I told her Pyrs are a protecting breed but this barking isnt working out.

Clarissa
 Snow Country
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10/2/2007 8:28:24 PM reply with quote send message to Snow Country Object to Post

Excuse my sloppiness. My mind is faster then my typing. happy :)
When I said Pyrs are protecting I forgot to add they bark to protect dont they? If they see something they bark to scare it away? Well I think that is what her Pyr is doing. But, I dont know much about the breed.

Help and thanks in advance!

Clarissa
 Arohawk Collies
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10/2/2007 8:42:38 PM reply with quote send message to Arohawk Collies Object to Post

My one collie is debarked and I know a lot of collie breeders who do debark. I have not had any problems with it and nor do I see a problem with it. I feel it is more of a problem to scream at the dog for barking than it is for debarking them. There is a misconseption to debarking... The dogs can still bark it is muted. Reese sounds like a squeek toy when he barks but thank god he is debarked because he barks A LOT!!!

Jackie
 Snow Country
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10/2/2007 8:55:19 PM reply with quote send message to Snow Country Object to Post

Thanks for the input. happy :)
So they are not completely mute?

Clarissa
 hi-fi
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10/2/2007 9:07:25 PM reply with quote send message to hi-fi Object to Post

I know someone who has to debark all her dogs due to neighbors.
All have a different bark, none are mute, they still have a bark.
It was actually quite nice when I "dog sat" them, they have very polite barks. You can still hear them, but the neighbors can't.
However, I have heard some show people say they breathe different, like when gaiting around the ring...
 MONTCALM KENNELS
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10/2/2007 9:14:15 PM reply with quote send message to MONTCALM KENNELS Object to Post

Has your friend thought about trying a bark collar before jumping into debarking? They have several different kinds of bark collars. Some are shock collars while others spray citronella. If she is not into the whole shock thing she could try the spray kind.
 krisk
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10/2/2007 9:22:30 PM reply with quote send message to krisk Object to Post

I have a friend that debarks her S.Poodles. I personally don't like the sound they make when debarked. But given a choice of having them debarked or having problems with neighbors. I would have them debarked. It is a personal choice, as you are the one living with your dogs and the sounds they make.

krisk
 McKinley View Kennels
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10/2/2007 9:34:25 PM reply with quote send message to McKinley View Kennels Object to Post

Ok, this is totally my opinion and I know many people will disagree, I think its very lazy, dogs chew, dig and BARK its part of being dog, so you need to teach the dog not to bark, just yelling at him will not work, you need to teach him the command, now I know with a pry that can be hard since they are a very independent breed but its worth a try, if that doesnt work there are many differnt kinds of bark collars, that spray or shock and things that emit a noise when the dog barks. I think thos are things that need to be tryed first along with excerise and training like basic ob, no dog is going to bark if they are sleeping, you also need to find out why they are barking, is it because they dont like to be alone or are they just board, I think they best plan for this dog would be start with excerise, take him for a bike ride or hike a 15mn walk with NOT do it, then give him some mental stymulation by teaching him basic OB or a new trick after that give him a bone or kong to chew on, if he still barks get a shock or spray collar, that way the dog is tired, happy and is getting corrected if he barks, chances are if that is done everyday the barking with decrease and will probably even stop.

I think there are only very rare ocasions where debarking is really needed.

-Reesa-
 honcho
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10/2/2007 9:51:55 PM reply with quote send message to honcho Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

here we go again with the big debarking debate!!! heres a link i found quite helpful.
www.naiaonline.org/body/articles/archives/debark_qna.htm

And one thing about using a barking collar on a pyr, you will probably have to get his throat shaved to get it to work at least thats what happened with a clients heavy coated pyr.
 Doubletake
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10/2/2007 10:05:56 PM reply with quote send message to Doubletake Object to Post

To me debarking can seem less cruel than teaching a dog not to bark. Yes dogs communicate with more than just a bark but a bark is part of it.
So which would you prefer, speaking in a whisper or not being allowed to speak?
I agree with training a dog not to bark at every little thing if it's possible but I do believe there are dogs who are just happy barkers. It is one of their favorite things to do for no reason other than they like it. I would certainly debark my dogs if I feared for their safety because of annoying the neighbors.
I don't see how shocking a dog with a bark collar is any better than debarking and in some ways I think it is worse. The debarked dog can still bark but the one with the collar can't without being zapped.
Brandy
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 FASTSheltie
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10/2/2007 11:15:36 PM reply with quote send message to FASTSheltie Object to Post

what if the dog is barking while they are gone? How is someone going to train the dog not to bark then?

Shelties have problems with barking and I know a lot of people who debark them. Mine, however, arent barkers so I got lucky. If it was up to me being able to keep them, or get them debarked (if they were barkers) I would get them debarked..its not like you are taking off a leg or something.

I would prefer NOT to debark.. but if its a situation where it can not be trained out.. (if its a dog already set in its ways, it might be very difficult) and lets face it, most people wouldnt be capable of training a problem barker not to bark. In situations like that, I would debark.
 SureShot
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10/3/2007 12:26:32 AM reply with quote send message to SureShot Object to Post

Radar is a barker, however he is also debarked. Apparently before I got him, he was sent to Indiana to stand at stud for a bit and when his breeder got him back, he'd been debarked.

While I don't agree with it except as a complete and utter last resort. I know people who have had problem barkers and ahve really tried everything and with no real result, and the neighbours are complaining and threatening to shoot the dog (a keeshond) Eventually they had Storm debarked; it really was their last resort.

In a way I don't mind Radar being debarked, since i live in an apartment that only allows pets on a case-by-case basis and if anyone ever complained about barking I'd have to either move or get rid of my dogs. It's nice to know that even if he's barking his head off, he isn't bothering anyone (I'm pretty sure he doesnt, but you never know).
 Firebyrd
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10/3/2007 1:14:19 AM reply with quote send message to Firebyrd Object to Post

Debarking certainly shouldn't be done unless there are issues (neighbor issues are issues) as there are health risks. Scarring from a bad job can lead to swallowing issues and inhalation of water or food into the lungs. The bark can come back too. One can minimize this risk by finding the best debarking vet in the area. In our state people will drive 100's of miles to the right vet to minimize the risk. Ask your show minpin or sheltie people who they patronize.

Debarked dogs that are problem barkers are very happy dogs normally. They can sit there and bark their fool heads off. They don't care that the noise isn't there anymore. And they don't have to deal with the constant punishment for barking, or being shut up all day to prevent barking instead of getting to have more freedom.

One has to consider balance this with the risk of the neighbor getting the police, animal control out to force them to get rid of the dog. Or try to poison/take care of the dog themselves. Even the neighbor bashing the fence or yelling at the dog can result in severe behavioral issues with the dog.

And sometimes one has to balance the problems caused by trying to train the dog out of barking. Most dogs won't quit with training anyhow and there's no way to stop the dog from barking if the owner isn't home. Ok,bark collars sometimes (not always) work. They're not all that great a choice either. Many dogs learn to bark just below the collar trigger level.

One does simply have to have courtesy to the neighbors not to have a barking dog tho, so it must be stopped.
 Arohawk Collies
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10/3/2007 5:26:25 AM reply with quote send message to Arohawk Collies Object to Post

If your friend is going to debark have her do some research on vets. Not all vets will debark. I am lucky there is a vet 45 mins from my house who will debark and I am thinking about getting Nala done because she is a barker. She has seperation anxiety and the first 5-10 mins we are gone she barks like crazy. Collies as well as shelties bark a lot, so if pyrs dont debark as much contact some collie and sheltie breeders in her area who debark and see who they use. 9 times out of 10 they will use the same vet. I kennel sit for a very big collie kennel and all of their dogs are debarked and they have never had a problem with the vet or the debark.

Jackie
 Chiaha
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10/3/2007 8:10:12 AM reply with quote send message to Chiaha Object to Post

Sounds like a case to me of someone bought the wrong breed to fit into thier home and now they want to "modify" it to make it fit. I dislike de-barking and I am not sure anyone could lay a case before me where I would say I accepted it. I took care of a dog for awhile that was debarked, and it was pathetic. He tried to get happy and play and bark with everyone else, but he couldnt and would normally end up squeeking until he just went to hide in his box.

To each his own...but in my personal opinion its a very cruel option to take.
 Cashmere
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10/3/2007 8:58:52 AM reply with quote send message to Cashmere Object to Post

I think debarking has to be one of the dumbest ideas I have ever heard. Dogs are supposed to bark! I can understand why people would not want them barking.. but give me a break... if you dont want barking, get a cat.
 Barkinmad
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10/3/2007 11:36:33 AM reply with quote send message to Barkinmad Object to Post

Debarking is illegal in England - if people have barky dogs - they have to train them.

I have to say as an English person the procedure appears barbaric - I would never risk surgery on my dog rather than train it ... likewise I wouldn't get a barky breed if I weren't prepared to either put the time in on training it or live in an area where it didn't matter ...
 hi-fi
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10/3/2007 1:52:53 PM reply with quote send message to hi-fi Object to Post

Again... They bark, just not as loud. It's like someone turned down the volume.
 PixelPups
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10/3/2007 3:47:38 PM reply with quote send message to PixelPups Object to Post

My first dog was a rehome that I got at 3 years old, already debarked. He couldn't make much noise, and along with no barking, couldn't whine or growl or make any other noise. I could tell by how he was breathing what noise he wanted to make, but it was physically impossible.

I think this made his dog-on-dog interactions a bit difficult, since he couldn't make appropriate sounds. Also, there seemed to be some scar tissue that inhibited his epiglottis from completely covering his trachea when he drank, so he frequently coughed after drinking. (My DH called it "hacking up a lung" sad :( ).

Overall, it didn't seem to bother him too much, but I've personally decided I'll never debark a dog UNLESS it's a choice between debarking and death/rehoming. I may not really like debarking but I'd do it before getting rid of any of my dogs!
 Sunset Goldens
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10/3/2007 3:58:38 PM reply with quote send message to Sunset Goldens Object to Post

I wouldn't do it if it were me.
 Ltlpistol*s Lights
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10/3/2007 4:05:24 PM reply with quote send message to Ltlpistol*s Lights Object to Post

I had never heard of debarking until I read this topic on here. But I had to put my two cents in, and maybe it's not pertinent here, but I think it's worth hearing.

I had a border collie mix about 20 years ago, that loved to bark at the sky, in the middle of the night! There was no moon, no stars, no clouds, never anything that we could find. She just would put her head back and bark at the sky. The neighbors, of course did not find this amusing at all. After our third visit from animal control, and giving ourselves sore throats from yelling at her, I came upon what worked for us. We had a large home-made wooden dog carrier that had a door that latched tightly. When she would start barking, and not listening to me, I would put her into the kennel, and shut the door on her. Well, her brother, who had never spent one night away from her since birth, would always squeeze in with her just as I shut the door. And he would not leave without her.

So, the two of them would spend the rest of the night in a box just big enough for them to lay down on top of each other. I only had to do this 3 times before she knew that when I told her to shut up she did. We never had another problem with her barking at night.

Like I said, not sure if this would work with a pyr, but it worked for me. Without resorting to anything that might have harmed the dog.

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