.com Forum · Miniature Poodle

Ok so I am willing to do the work for finding the genes that we need to give Jeff but I need ya'lls input!
The Poodle Club of America states that any solid color is accepted so here are the colors:
Black
White
Cream
Blue
Silver
Brown
Red
Apricot
Grey
Café-au-Late
Personally I think grey and silver are the same but I will double check to make sure when I find the genes.
So speak up and tell me what you guys think!
Tammy
Breckenridge Poodles

Genotypes Coat Color Nose Color HiddenColor
EEBB black black -
EeBB black black cream
EEBb black black brown
EeBb black black cream and brown
eeBB cream black black
eeBb cream black black and brown
eebb cream brown brown
EEbb brown brown -
Eebb brown brown cream

So now I need to find the gene things for silver, white and a few others
Tammy

I would love to offer my input, but honestly im that experienced with the poodles colour genetics, as my real life breed is Australian Shepherds.
Sorry guys!
Kelly

www.netpets.com/dogs/reference/genetics/pdlcolor.html

This is the site that I found. I think the difference between some of the shadings is an undercoat-overcoat thing. This is my understanding on purely the colour:

Black BBEEvv
Brown bbEEvv
Apricot BBeevv
Blue BBEEVv
Silver-Beige BBeeVv
Cream BBeeVv
Silver BBEEVV
champagne bbEEVV
White BBeeVV

There is a lot of other stuff there, but it went largely over my head. My degree is in Economics, not Biology

Oh Dear,
I'm from Scotland and in the UK we do not recognize as many colours as the US.

Here were recognize Black , Blue , Silver , Apricol , Brown and White.

I think it is important though that Jeff knows the if you breed Black to white you can get Blacks and Whites in your litter but if you Breed White to White no matter what colour is behing them that you only ever get whites in your litter.

Hope this helps.

Calum

From memory Jeff said we should go with AKC recognised colours. I personally can't see any point in including DQ colours although some breeds have.

Working on colour in a couple of my other breeds, I'd suggest, unless you're a geneticist, to keep it as simple as possible.

AKC recognised colours, what results from those matings and the general proportion of the colours in the overall population.

Try not to go too small with any particular colour, otherwise it's likely to be lost, so if necessary stretch the truth a bit, lol.

I think Jeff's happy to leave that side of it up to us.

If you're not sure you've got it right, there are several very cluey people around to help out.
A plea for help in the main colour post that's going usually works wonders.

Also, as Mins, Toys and Standards presumably all carry the same colours a post in the other forums may get some more input.

Also Silver Beige is listed as a recognised colour with the AKC.

Ok so can we agree that these are the colors that we will work with? (This list is per AKC website)
Apricot
Black
Blue
Brown
Cafe Au Lait
Cream
Gray
Red
Silver
Silver Beige
White

We also need to decide percentages, I propose the following:
Apricot 5%
Black 30%
Blue 5%
Brown 10%
Cafe Au Lait 1%
Cream 10%
Gray 2% (can anyone tell me the difference in grey and silver?)
Red 1%
Silver 5%
Silver Beige 1%
White 30%

Tammy

Silver is Grey....Just some people differ in colour opinion depending on how the colour fades out after coat change.

I like the percentages.

The difference between grey and silver seems to be shading. Grey shades more from a black bottom coat and silver from a white. I could be completely wrong.

I vote we forget grey and just go with silver, just because silver sounds more cool

Dzur...Your right it does depends on Shading as the coat fades out , but Silver as far as I'm concerned is the only recognized Solid Colour.

Ok so do we want to roll the grey and silver percentages together ? That would give silver a little bit larger of the starter population.
like this:
Apricot 5%
Black 30%
Blue 5%
Brown 10%
Cafe Au Lait 1%
Cream 10%
Red 1%
Silver 7%
Silver Beige 1%
White 30%

Tammy

I've been pondering this. I looked at the other poodles and they do not seem to be talking about this a whole lot. For simplicitiy's sake (and going over what info we could find), Why don't we roll red in to appricot and cafe a lait in to brown?

Less is more in a lot of cases and I think we have a better chance of being implemented without issue if we keep at simple as we can and still have a nice variety.

Opinions?

Im fine with rolling red in to apricot and cafe a lait in to brown, but I think we have to remember that once this is done I dont think we can go back and change anything. Although that does bring into question the dilute factor because if my understanding is correct you cant have a dilute (apricot or cafe a lait or even silver) without having a dominante color first (red, brown or black) I could be way off base so please correct me if Im wrong.

Tammy

I didn't think about the dominance thing, so I will change my opinion to those two staying.

Do we have everything we need for the genetics themselves, or do we still need more research?

Okay, looking at this further, I think that oddly enough, the apricot might be the dominate. I will note that I hated the whole genetics thing in biology, so this may be a bit off base because I wasn't paying attention

BB black
bb brown
EE White
ee apricot
VV silver
vv blue
FF red in apricot and brown
dd dilution factor (brown for cafe au lait?)


Black BBEEvv
Brown bbEEvv
Apricot BBeevv
Blue BBEEVv
Silver-Beige BBeeVv
Cream BBeeVv
Silver BBEEVV
White BBeeVV
Red BBeevvFF or bbEEvvFF
Cafe Au Lait bbEEvvdd

Dzur,
After reading the website I am in agreement with you about apricot being the dominante color. And I do believe that those codes you posted are the correct ones.
So if we are in agreement should we post this to the forum (with the percentages) so we can get color?

Tammy

Hi everyone, not a Mini breeder but I do have Toys, and our forum is very in active. I just wanted to say I would agree to rolling some of the "like" colors together, cafe au lait to brown and grey to silver

Hope you guys don't mind, but I think all poodles will have the same genetics!



Wendy

I think that with all of the trouble I went through to figure out red and cafe a lait, I would rather just keep them now.

I cannot say for certain if all poodles will have the same genetics, I get the sense from what I have been reading, that all dogs share a base genotypes when it comes to coloring, which makes sense because I believe that most humans share the same genotypes, they simply display different colourations because of dominance, partial-dominance, and mutation (So see, I was paying SOME attention in biology).

Have you guys over in Toys worked out any of the genotypes? I would like to compare what I came up with to someone else's, just to make sure that I got it right.

I'm looking forward to seeing what the mini group decides on as I believe these colors will be used by all of the poodles.

I have Toys at this time and am looking forward to see what colors they are.

I think that if there are no objections, you can go ahead and post our results, Tammy. I will let you have the honours since you got us going and kept us going

Mari
Dzur Mountain