.com Forum · UK Forum

What does everyone think about judging these days???
I was at my local show this weekend SKC and it's not the only shows I go to although I have not been showing this year due to taking over a new boarding kennels and cattery so it's been mayhem.
So having a chance this weekend to go and just watch the judging around the rings I thought many things really sucked.
Ok...I watched judging in one ring from puppy dog till bitch CC and in the post graduate bitch class the judge witheld on 2nd,3rd,4th,and 5th place...obviously with an opinion that the dogs placed after 1st were not worthy to be there...??? Was certainly not the worst class of the day but the only class witheld in. The standard of the dogs entered were poor. The bitch CC ticket winner was of less quality than at least one of the witheld dogs but of course the bitch CC winer is judging the judges breed later this year!!!SHOCKING

Ok on to the groups...
I watched in May all the groups and again I watched all the groups.
Watching the judges you can tell right away who they consider and who they don't...Do be so blatant...Jeezzz... when a judge goes to a dog puts his hand on it's head , then proceeds to run his hand down it's back and moves it , does this qualify for going over your dog??? NOPE!! Then sends it in a triangle and looks at that top of the tent...wow nice movement in the tent!!! It just sucks... People pay there entry fees , and whether or not they get to group stage or not they deserve the right to what should feel like proper consideration in the class and group if they get there. I knew two weeks ago who was getting BIS...words travels fast around the show world.

I show Greyhound's and the judging of these is even more "dodgy"
how some of the dogs in this breed win so many B.O.Bs, Groups and B.I.S is beyond me,the vast majority of these top winners don't forfill the first two lines of the breed standard.

Yes sometimes you must wonder.

If you think judging is dodgy - listen to this one.
Several years ago someone entered and showed their unqualified Beagle at Crufts. The Beagle people explained why it was wrong and asked her not to do it again. I understand that she applied for a JW warrant with the Beagle and got it but the Beagle people did not believe that the dog had earned it. However it was not chllenged and it stands.
The Beagle people made it clear that she was not welcome in the breed so she bought a Pharaoh Hound. The PH was born in June 2004 so the only championship show it could enter that year was LKA which does not have PH classes. The PH definately did not get BPIS yet was entered and won BPIB at Crufts 2005 beating a dog that had qualified. A complaint was lodged with the Kennel Club and the PH was disqualified.
Several months later she applied for a JW for the PH which had 13 points. Despite the fact that she was on record for entering Crufts whe not qualified, the Kennel Club sent out the JW certificate without checking her form. A complaint was made, the JW was withdrawn and she was fined £150.
She has since applied for a ShCM with the PH. I have been asked if she qualified for it. The answer is I don't know and I don't care. As far as I am concerned now Crufts Qualifiers, JW and ShCM mean nothing as they rely on the integrity of the person applying - as does the Accredited Breeder - which this person has despite never having bred a litter.
How can you ever expect the Kennel Club to deal with dodgy judging when they can't deal effectively with downright cheating?

Apologies folks - I only posted once but it has come up three times (as I suspect this one might). I don't know why this has happened.

I've just checked and this only came up once - not a clue what happened with my previous post.

That's really bad why cheat it's so much more fun trying really hard to get qualified that person such get banned from showing that'll teach them

AMGR

I quite agree with you AMGR and I think that she should be thrown out of the Pharaoh Hound Club but sadly I appear to be in a minority of one. If anything people are holding it against me because they all want to pretend it didn't happen and I won't let them.
My mother always used to say that "A leopard doesn't change its spots", if someone does not behave with integrity then they are not going to change.
Someone in USA told me that the AKC would ban the owner but our KC would rather have the money.
The person in question has been quite shrewd about it as the dogs are all in her name so if the KC banned her she would just put them in her husband's name and carry on regardless.

Such a shame about people like that but the fine wouldn't help as some people can afford to keep paying it but she would probaly use another name at least there aren't so many people like that in dog showing

AMGR

Are you sure the PH didn't get a BPIS at an open show which would at many shows qualify it for Crufts? The age would have disqualified it if it competed there would be no need to lay out money to complain.Many dogs are disqualified after Crufts,mainly because they have been entered in the wrong class.The SCM is awarded on a points system.Points are given for BIS and RBIS.
Unless you know every single open show the PH competed in and the results for those shows then opinions shouldn't be given.Many open shows don't classify PH ao they sould win through from AVNSC
It seems to me that a lot of people were paying out for complaints when the KC would have picked up on amy wrong doing for free.
Seems to me that some have knives set out for another in this case.
Getting back to the origional point of this thread it would be interesting to know whether the judge was a breed specialist or an all rounder.I have found that some all rounders just go for the face on the end of the lead.Sad thing is it costs money (entry fee) to sort the good from the bad.

Sorry left off, the accredited breeder is something which I think is open to any to join and really is just a name.

quote

---

posted by Willow Designz
Are you sure the PH didn't get a BPIS at an open show which would at many shows qualify it for Crufts?

---

Absolutely certain

quote

---

posted by Willow Designz
Seems to me that some have knives set out for another in this case.

---

That is exactly what this dog's owner would have you believe.
The beagle people took the time to explain how things worked to this dog's owner as she was a complete beginner. However rather than learn from it she has carried on in her own way. When the Beagle people got fed up of her she bought a Pharaoh hound and carried on in exactly the same manner.

I am disappointed to hear you come out in support of dishonesty.

I do not support dishonesty in any form.
There are channels that the KC have in place and if anyone goes over the mark they will take approprite action.
What I feel is inapproprite for this forum to discuss is hearsay when the other person has no way of putting their side.
In one of my breeds a respected person entered pups for a Champ show that were not eligible,they knocked mine out of a Crufts qualifying place.By the time the KC disqualified them (no complaint from me) it was too late for me to enter Crufts.All our Breed members knew but no one kept dwelling on it and talking about it.You should know as well as I it takes all sorts to make a dog show and with things like this there are always two sides to a story.Some exhibiters are great some are those we wouldn't want to have any dealings with.
It is different with judges who are KC appointed as they should all act with honesty and sadly there are a few that don't.

I have been told by employees of the Kennel Club that the KC is concerned about the number of exhibitors leaving dog showing.
Is it any wonder with the dishonesty of all descriptions that goes on?
On the Crusts entry form, JW form and ShCM form there is a declaration to be signed to say that the applicant is telling the truth. If the best that the KC can do about someone who HABITUALLY signs these forms KNOWING that the information is false is a fine of £150, then it is highly unlikely that judges "doing favours for each other" is going to cease.
I started showing in 1978, however I am coming to the conclusion that the show world has changed so much that it has no place for honest exhibitors.
Although I am not ready to make that decision yet, I suspect that it is only a matter of time before I join the others who have voted with their feet (and their chequebooks).

The kennel club have always been dodgy.
I have had names turned down. I tried to register a puppy with my affix and then Shear Exstacy and was told that I could not use Exstacy as it related to the DRUG. I was not intending that...but I find shortly later that there is a Chiuhuahua being shown with it's owners affix and Sheer Exstacy as it's name so I telephone the kennel club and explain the situation and get told "it just depends who processes your name application....where does that leave owners??? I have used a particular word in many of my registered names and now get told I can't because it's an ancient affix for some lord who had show dogs and when I tell them I have several names using this word they tell me " it depends who processes your application....GET A GRIP KC.

If the KC were perfect it would be an amazing world.Now they are computerised it should make life better.I had a surprise when a name I registered was accepted.I also had another name changed due to a spelling error.
If an ex. is filling in forms incorrectly it only hurts them as does a fine.I can't see how it would benefit anyone else for other action to be taken unless they have a quest for revenge.I am sure if it goes on to much the KC would take further action as appropriate.
A Judge who completes forms incorrectly would be fined and banned if neccessary.Reas the Kennel Gazette.
Any Judge who judges 'for favours' is usually spotted by the breed club in question and they can take appropriate action and complain to the KC.
It would be interesting to read the critique from SKC on the class in question.
I and my famly have been showing since 1980 and still enjoy it win or lose.There is no reason for us to stop.
The reasons people are not showing so much are cost of travel and entry fees plus the fact it often means a day off work.Carefully selecting the judges for your dogs also means less showing.
Other competitions,obedience,agility,fly ball and HTM.
The worst reason is the ringside 'maffia' and I have seen people reduced to tears by the 'oldies'
that don't like 'newbies'.

Sorry that was me...logged out while writing

quote

---

posted by Sasilasy Poodles

Ok on to the groups...
I watched in May all the groups and again I watched all the groups.
Watching the judges you can tell right away who they consider and who they don't...

---

ok, yes, some judges are bent. I totally agree. But not all. But when a judge watches all the dogs coming in for the group, he may look at one dogs movement and THINK to him/herself "God, that dogs movement is awful". I also agree that some dogs just dont get a look in due to the fact of "Who is on the other end of the lead". but again not all judges are like that.

i feel by your quote what you are saying is ALL judges are just placing their friends and who they thing can repay the favours. i honestly dont believe this is true in the case of all group judging. There are some honest judges out there!!!!!

I am sorry you feel I may be putting all judges under the same categorie of BENT...This was not my intention...jeeezzz god help us all if this was the case...of course there are some good honest judges out there.
I just feel that there are certain judges that get appointments at group level especialy that time and time again are so obviously bent.
As I well know if the group dog came from an entry of say 5 dogs then it's the best of that breed there on that day, and that that being best may be awful but I still think a judge out of courtesy should go over the dog properly and watch it move , the owner deserves that much!!!