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| Author | Topic : What do you all think about Dingoes? | |||
| Arkadian Utopia Basic User Posts : 47  |
Hey people
What do you all think about the Dingo? Pest? pet? National Icon? Native Wildlife? Should we protect or eradicate? I own a Dingo X and he is the best dog I have ever had, I beleive that we should let them be as well as let licenced owners have them as pets or working dogs. Not eliminate them, they don't do anything that it is not natural for them to do, and most problems attributed to dingoes are probably dogs and we caused the ferral dog problem. We canno't blaim the dingo for taking advantage of the food we provide (livestock) so we should just have better preventitive measures in place (like better fencing) so that the problem never comes up. That is my rant, so what is your oppinion? |
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| Evening Star Kennels Basic User Posts : 1,000+ |
Well why I am not from Australia, let me give you my 2 cents as a behaviorist. Dingos, wild dogs, wolves....are not..nor should they be subjected to being pets/working dogs. Their psychology is much different than a dog, who having been bred for generations is domesticated. I have worked with wild animals people thought would be "cool" to have as pets, including a dingo, that was brought into this country, to be a family pet. This dingo, was fear aggressive...and had never learned to properly socialize around the youngest child, which in fact represented prey to him. This animal...literally made the hair on the back of my neck stand up. Not many canids have done that in my life. I believe all wild dogs indigenous to their countries, should be preserved and treated as a treasure. To try to domesticate something wild, takes the spirit from them. Wolves, and wolf hybrids make me want to just cry. They are trapped between wanting to be in their "pack" with wild instinctual feelings, that are what the animal is made of. Wolves, are not lil wild puppies running around lost. Nor are dingos. They are well equipped and organized for life in the wild. Let's respect them, and leave them there. Mandy |
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| Templar Knights Basic User Posts : 3,000+ |
As always Mandy...perfectly sensible and logical answer. I completely agree. |
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| Arkadian Utopia Basic User Posts : 47 |
OK you have a good point, but there are people in Australia who have sucsessfully "tamed" Dingoes. Dingoes ARE winld animals, that is true, but if they are treated as such and are properly handeled at a young age (4-5 weeks) they can become wonderfull "pets". I don't think that anybody should be allowed to own them as most people don't even understand how a domestic dog's mind works, let alone a wild dogs. But for those who are truely dedicated to the breed, then maybee an exeption can be made; and besides what are dogs but domesticated wild dogs? True they have had thousands of years to fully integrate into our society, but the first "dogs" that people tamed must have worked out or dogs would never have been domesticated to start with. But it would be wise to make Dingo ownership ileagal for those who don't know about them and won't dedicate their lives to them, as Dingoes don't take change of home or owner well at all. They form strong loyalties to one person or their "pack" and remain loyal for the rest of teir lives. I will continue later...... |
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| Shybade Basic User Posts : 5,000+ |
I'm in total agreement with Evening Star. |
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| S. B. G. Chow Chows Basic User Posts : 1,000+ |
quoteNot fom Australia either,but here is my veiw. I higly understand what you are saying in a sense. However I was watching a small segment and there are few that are "domesticating" the dingo. However one of the breeds that are in the A.K.C. which were once considered wild and exotic animals were chows. So "exotic that they were kept in the British zoos, until Queen Victoria brought some into her kennel. So if that is he case as today, all there is need is to be another person with a great influence to do the same. Maybe if she had never done that, chows would have still been in captivity. Maybe or maybe not, we would never know. Shane of S.B.G. Chow Chows |
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| Arkadian Utopia Basic User Posts : 47 |
Thank you Shane! Continuing from what I said before, I would like to point out that Dingoes are a "feral" dog more than a wild dog, while I understand that they have Re-inherited ALL of the wild charachteristics, it would be wise to remember that they may have once been domesticated. Added to which there are numerous people in Australia who have successfully domestiated dingoes and have set up breeding studs to keep the breed pure. Because the sad fact of the matter is that dingoes will HAVE to be domesticated or breed in captivity if they want to survive. unlike other "wild dogs" the dingo will readily cross-breed with the domestic dog, and due to the great numbers of both feral dogs and free ranging pets, the majority of "wild dogs" living in Australia are either ferals or hybrids. many orginisations are spending vast amounts of money to find and breed pure dingoes. These "tame" or "captive" dingoes cannto then, unfornunatly be then reintroduced as they will have lost fear of humans and will probably be shot by the first farmer or hunter they happen upon. The other biggest issue with the dingo is that people regard them as a pest animal and most farmers would be happy to see them killed, to the last animal, rather like the tasmanian tiger or thilacine. Domestication of a small number would help people to overcome their miscoception of the dingo and hopefully reverse the trend of poisonings, trappings and shootings. I would love to see the dingo as a respected wild animal, and maybe a pet, if only for educational purposes; but it seems sad to me that people are still taking the same stance with the dingo and Americans did with the wolf. It would be a sad day if I lived in a worl with no more dingoes, just because people were far more interested in saving the Koala or the panda, just because THEY are cuter. |
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| CaboodleIWS Basic User Posts : 3,000+ |
this post has been edited 1 time(s) I tend to agree with everything Mandy has said... There is a reason that here, in many states, Wolves or Wolf Crosses are illegal to own. I have personally seen a Husky/Wolf cross turn on it's owner - despite the fact it was brought into the house and "domesticated" at 10 weeks old. It turned on it's owner, of course, after getting it's jaws around the house cat. How many times do we hear of stories of a Lion or Tiger in a zoo or in a circus mauling it's caretaker? They are hardly "wild" either - handfed, around humans their entire life, never having seen the outside world.. yet it happens ALL the time. Domestication is a long, tedious process and cannot be done in a generation. I do believe the dingos ought to be protected and kept from being destroyed in the wild - but I also think that Dingos (and wolves, and big cats, etc.) do not belong in the house. They are entirely too unpredictable. Caboodle Edited because just this morning I watched video footage of a Cheetah being re-released into the wild after spending time in captavity healing some wounds - where he was with humans 24/7... well, the minute he was released from the transport carrier, what did he do? It wasn't run into the wild - he turned around and mauled the guy that had opened the cage. Additionally, there was video footage of two Lions that attacked their keeper in a zoo. Both were raised in the zoo from the time they were born and were used to daily interactions with humans. I don't recall what they said the keeper entered their exhibit for, but he entered, patted them on the head, turned around, and suddenly was mauled and brought down by both of them. They proceeded to actually pull pieces of flesh/meat off of him while he screamed for help. Both men turned out to be okay - but just kind of goes to show that even when you think animals are "safe" because they've been "domesticated" - you can't fully trust them. |
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| S. B. G. Chow Chows Basic User Posts : 1,000+ |
To sum everything down I highly agree with you in an all round aspect. Shane of S.B.G. Chow Chows |
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| Arkadian Utopia Basic User Posts : 47 |
OK people. Again thank you Shane for agreeing with me. I would like to point out to Caboodle that most of those examples that you posed were on big cats. There is a very good reason why cats are NOT mans best friend, they ARE NOT LOYAL! they have no inherant loyalty because they are not pack animals, with the exeption of the lion but their "pack" is nothing like a dogs. I am not talking about big cats, I am talking about a DOG! and regardless of the breed, wether wild or domestic, ALL dogs have the same basic instincts. They are loyal to their pack!!!! I have been reading a book about a lady in the UK who has unraveled a way to comunicate with dogs on their own terms. She spent years studying wolves, and then looked at her own dogs and saw the exact same actions and comunications. She discovered that most people misatkenly let their dog beleive that HE is the alpha (the top dog) and that can cause majour problems. most people don't even realise that their dog beleives that it is the alpha or that they are encoraging it. That Wolf/dog who turned on his owner was in one of two positions, it was being mistreated and defended itself, it was defending another member of its "pack" from the person, or it beleived that the person was chalanging his leadership and he needed to deal with this insubordinance. I would also like to point out that almost any animal can be domesticated, but that herd/pack animals are the easiest and the most responsive to "domestication" I will cotinue later |
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| CaboodleIWS Basic User Posts : 3,000+ |
this post has been edited 1 time(s) quoteMy posts were not to form a difference between a "big cat" (feline) and dog (canine) comparison... it was to show that feral animals are not easily or quickly domesticated, and even when it is thought that they are or should be, they easily convert back to their feral ways. With that said, wolves are not "loyal" to humans - in fact, many of them fear humans (as they should). To say that "almost any animal can be domesticated" goes to show what little you know about animal behavior, instincts, and needs. The wolf hybrid I spoke of earlier was in neither of the two situations you spoke of. There was no inherint reason for it to turn as it did... I find it interesting that you know NOTHING of the situation, the people, or the canine, and yet you can tell me why it did what it did - you can't. In fact, no one can give a solid, 100% undisputable reason, other than it reverted to its "feral genes". Yes, many people do not know how to control their 'pack' and inadvertantly give leadership to the canines in their life. This is PRECISELY the reason that laypeople should not set themselves out to domesticate wildlife. If wildlife is to be domesticated (and I stand by the fact that what is feral ought to be left that way), it needs to be done by people that have EXTENSIVE training in such an animal's natural behaviors, diets, pack orders, etc. But it seems that this is yet another case of "the ignorant can't be educated" and I will cease to waste my time arguing with a child that very obviously doesn't know what they are talking about. Caboodle |
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| Evening Star Kennels Basic User Posts : 1,000+ |
this post has been edited 1 time(s) Again Caboodle... People with no real life practical experience speak. I personally have worked with wolf/wolf hybrids, dingos. I have had the dipleasure of seeing the look in the eyes of a "domesticated" wolf. And how someone could do that to such a beautiful creature is beyond me. I have had a wolf hybrid that was place by a small malamute rescue come to my class, and for no apparent reason, other than jumping on my assistant, scratching her, seeing her in pain, took advantage of her weakened state and attacked. I had to close my class, and race her to the emergency room, where she required over 30 stitches. But, I know nothing I guess. We should leave these good people, who apparently do not want nor need advice from a behaviorist or a person well versed in behavior, to their discussion...and who knows? Maybe this is how the "dingo ate my baby" story came up!!!(HADDD to get that in there...lol) Mandy ETA...you wanted people opinions...so long as they matched your own. Sorry, I cannot agree with domesticating a wild animal in generation one..coming out of the wild. It is a selection process that takes many generations. |
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| Basic User Posts : 1,000+ |
OK, look I do not want ONLY people who agree with me! That is stupid, and I am not a "child that very obviously doesn't know what they are talking about", I happen to be very well read, well experienced and happen to have just a little more of an open mind than some people I could mention! I am sick of people who take the actions of the few and turn them into fact!It is people like you who have tarnished the name of many dog breeds (like the pitt bull, the bull terrier and many others)simply because of a couple of regrettable instances. NO animal is vicious for the sake of being vicious, they always have a reason; a person may not be able to see that reason, but that does not make it dissapear! YES, dingoes, wolves, wild dogs, they all have the characteristics that give them the best chance of success in the wild, and yes, domestication has taken thousands of years. But by you all saying that ALL wolves, All dingoes and All "wild" animals cannot be trusted, is like saying that ALL little dogs are snappish!!! When this is not so! You say that you cannot trust a domesticated wild dog and that it will convert back to its ferral ways; why? What reason can you give? You say that "wolves are not "loyal" to humans" and you are right to say that they fear us, but pack and herd animals are inherantly loyal. Though people may not see it that way. You say that "wild" animals that have been "domesticated" cannot be trusted, but you could just as easily say that "no domesticated animal can be trusted" one statement would be as true as the other. I have seen dogs that never so much as looked at a person wrong in their lives, attack a child for no "known" reason. Dogs are wolves, dogs are dingoes, dogs are wild dogs. You cannot pretend that they are not; the first wolves to be tamed, must have been just the same as the wolves that live today, and had THOSE people had the same narrow mind as you, none would have been domesticated and "mans best friend" would never have emerged. But it is true what you say, that only those who know what they are doing should domesticate a "wild animal" but so it should also be the case with the "domesic" dog, there are too many people out there who own dogs, but have no idea what they are doing. Shouldn't you be just as concerned with THAT as with debating that the wild dog is not to be trused? Shouldn't you be more concerned with the wolf or dingo in your home? I desist, I am tired. Tired of arguing to change perceptions of people who will never change, tired of fighting for a cause that is lost because of people like you, who have made up their minds and regard anybody who chalanges their "factual oppinions" as "ignorant can't be educated". At least look at some facts from people who know. Here are some web sites on the dingo, look at them as you will, or don't. It matters not to me, your ignorance is your concern not mine. www.dingosanctuary.org/dingo_old/core.html www.ankc.aust.com/dingo.html home.vicnet.net.au/%7Edingo/pup.htm www.wadingo.com/pdf/codeofethics.pdf |
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| Evening Star Kennels Basic User Posts : 1,000+ |
In my very first post, I recounted an incident involving a dingo. It matters not if they are wolves, dingos or wild African dogs....the point remains the same...they are wild creatures and will resort to instinctual ways. You are being childish in representing yourself as open minded..then fighting anyone who offers a different opinion. I have been a behaviorist for many years, and have worked with all sorts of breeds. How DARE you insinuate that I would be someone who would damage the reputation of any breed. Learn before you speak...as Benjamin Franklin once said, "Is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of a fool, than to open it and prove everyone correct." Mandy |
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| Basic User Posts : 1,000+ |
quoteOnce again Mandy has stolen the words from my mouth! I, too, have worked as a behaviorist, as well as having worked under my own mother who has been a successful behaviorist for 20+ years. I am the *first* person to be an advocate for the "Pit Bull" (or Am Staffs, or Dobies, or Rotties), and frankly, having also worked in a Vet Clinic, the most aggressive animals I've seen are those that have been the ones considered most suitable for families (Goldens, Labs, etc.). Additionally, I have housed several aggressive Belgian Tervurens and German Shepherds... With that said, I really can't follow the logic that takes a discussion (as that's what it was meant to be - not the argument you have turned it into) from talking about the pros/cons of domesticating feral animals to suddenly talking about breed bias. I don't see the connection. You are correct in that animals don't do things for "no reason". I do believe I said no apparent reason - meaning that, we, as humans, do not recognize signs they give or the ways they think.. and is just one more reason that was is wild ought to stay in the wild. As my mother likes to say, "Common sense is no longer common." - and that seems to be proven true by the persistent postings of the OP here. To close with your own words, perhaps insighting some reflection (though, with the way things seem to have gone here, I highly doubt that will be the case): "I am tired. Tired of arguing to change perceptions of people who will never change, tired of fighting for a cause that is lost because of people like you, who have made up their minds and regard anybody who chalanges their..." opinions as incorrect simply because they are different. Caboodle |
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| CaboodleIWS Basic User Posts : 3,000+ |
Me above... site timed out. |
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| Arkadian Utopia Basic User Posts : 47 |
how did this get so bitter? I will not post here again, I have given up. Beleive what you will, but I would trust my life to a dingo or wolf any day; if you think me mad for that, so be it. But then I always did like animals more than people. |
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| CaboodleIWS Basic User Posts : 3,000+ |
quoteI shall think about this comment when headlines read "Dingo takes human life"... Caboodle |
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| Gremlin Airedale Terriers Basic User Posts : 3,000+ |
quoteHee hee.... *giggles* *gets serious* Mandy, I agree 100% with you. This OP seems to be very set in his/her ways and refuses to see eye-to-eye with someone who obviously knows exactly what she's talking about. I have to bring in the big cats thing once more. Remember that enormous uproar last year- I think it was last year; maybe the year before that- when the performers Sigmund and Roy (it was them, I think... I don't have all the details, but I do remember what happened and how shocked everyone was) when their "trained" tiger turned around and mauled the man onstage. Wild animals are simply not predictable. They're wild for a reason. You, OP, say that the Dingo should be domesticated... well, my lord! Guess what!? There already IS a dog; why do you need another subspecies of such? Besides, Dingo hybrids- and wolf hybrids for that matter- are just not good pets. There are plenty of examples to the contrary, and good for you who have managed to live with hybrids. But I have a very close friend who had a wolf hybrid many years ago, and she remembers that the dog was vicious and could not be let out without close supervision. The mention of the steriotype- the pit bull comment, mainly- simply boiled my blood. It's definately not something that can be related to the subject at hand. Dogs have been bred for centuries, and pitties have been bred to do what they do now- be good pets, and, in the hands of some irresponsible owners, be fighters. That's simply what they are supposed to do. Dingos should be wild. That's my stand on it. Why anyone would want to take a wonderful, perfectly adapted animal out of the wild simply because they want another subspecies of dog- and I have no idea why on earth you would want to do this... temperment? (Unstable) Looks? (Plenty of mixes out there look Dingo-ish and are actually domesticated)- is beyond me. Besides... there is a substantial difference between domesticated animals and tamed ones. Tamed ones are snatched straight out of the wild, and never truly get past their wild roots.... the tiger example above proves it. Domesticated animals have been gentled over generations and are 98% of the time trustworthy. I can just say that I would never put my life in the hands -er, paws- of a Dingo, or a wolf. They are gorgeous creatures, and I hope to be able to see one up close someday, but they are wild, and I, personally respect them for that. No person on the planet has any right to take them out of the habitat that they have inhabited for millenia. According to an article found on Google, "The Australian dingo descends from domesticated dogs that people from Southeast Asia brought with them to Australia some 5000 years ago". 5,000 years. That is a LONG time. They have since adapted wonderfully to the environment around them and know exactly what to do in their surroundings. Captive breeding programs, so that they may stay wild and abundant for years to come, is fine with me. But, as I have said many times and will say again now- No one has the right to take the Dingo from the wild simply to make it a subspecies of dog. |
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| DragonLord Basic User Posts : 46 |
By most..no scratch that, all my freinds call me the dog master and i think dingoes can be tamed, couse my dad no's someone that has tamed a wild dingoe. also, have you read white ute dreaming. it's about an owner of a dingoe. |
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| Whispering Willows Affgans Basic User Posts : 500+ |
Dingos aren't that intersting when you have seen them about 20 times! And neither are the kangaros but its fun to waych them i onece got 15 feet close to three kangs! |
10/23/2006 8:34:28 PM
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