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Author Topic : Multiple breed kennels
 Beach Dunes
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9/17/2013 2:43:22 PM reply with quote send message to Beach Dunes Object to Post   

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

I know that one of the key parts in finding a new puppy is to avoid kennels that breed more than 1 or 2 breeds, correct? Is it possible to become an established breeder and breed/show more than 2 breeds? Will that still be considered a puppy mill.

If a person has 3-4 breeds but actively showed quality dogs in each respective breed, are they still considered "bad breeders"

For instance, I personally love multiple breeds BUT I like them for specific reasons.If I have legitimate reasons to strive to make the perfect dog, does it matter how many different breeds I have?

I could think of a couple of reasons to breed certain dogs

Work ethic - sporting, terrier, hound, herding, and working (which can all have a specific breed in mind for each category, so this can actually act as 5 categories)
Large all around family dog
Small all around family dog
Playfulness / activity

(Of course some of these categories will interlap but you probably get my point)


So the main point I'm trying to get across;

What do you think is the maximum number of dog breeds to have in one kennel?

Would you, as a customer, not invest in dogs from multiple breed kennels?

What do you think are the most important subcategories for breeding dogs?

UPDATE:

Corrected spelling errors and deleted run-on sentences and stupid examples.

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Last edited by Beach Dunes on 9/17/2013 7:48:04 PM
 Beach Dunes
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9/17/2013 2:45:11 PM reply with quote send message to Beach Dunes Object to Post

Sorry about the typing mistakes. I just took 30 minutes doing this post from my phone -_-
 Dreisaiah Hundehutte
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9/17/2013 6:29:54 PM reply with quote send message to Dreisaiah Hundehutte Object to Post

There was a discussion about this on a Facebook group. The pattern was that there were two beliefs about this: 1. Anyone with more than two breeds in their kennel is more than likely either a puppy mill or a backyard breeder, and 2. It's none of anyone else's business what a breeder decides to do or not do in their breeding program.

My opinion is that having more than two breeds does NOT automatically make a BYB or puppy mill. I will say that the networking, research of lines and pedigrees, health, etc. being in only ONE breed is enough work and time for most people. Then to think about being involved with two breeds is also a lot of work. Nevermind three or more breeds!

I like many different breeds as well, but if I ever breed, it will only be one breed because that's the breed I have chosen and that fits my lifestyle and that I feel can be improved and helped to move forward. I don't want to breed another. I can have another as pets and members of my family but I don't need/want to breed every breed that I have. I want a Boerboel and a Presa and possibly an Am Staff but I would never breed these, even though I love them. There's just a different "love" for the breed that I DO want to breed. It's hard to explain.

In my opinion, deciding to breed is sort of a personal conviction-type feeling. A deep love for a breed that you want to see move forward, not backward, and spend your life (or part of your life) and a lot of your money learning more about this breed and producing the best pets (show/work too) ever. So, if someone honestly has love and conviction for more than two breeds, that's their thing. Do they show/work/health test/temperament test? Are they knowledgeable about genetics/bloodlines/health/recessives/issues/problems in their breed? Maybe, but that's another topic in itself.

I do shy away from breeders with more than three breeds. I prefer it when breeders specialize in one breed. If they specialize in one breed and have another breed, I wonder why that other breed isn't the specialty. Both are just as important.

Again, no one should be breeding unless it is their passion. This one breed is my passion. I love other breeds but I don't have a passion for them. But that's me, that doesn't automatically make me destined to be a reputable breeder any more than having more than two breeds destines someone to be a BYB or puppy mill.

Sorry for the long-winded answer...
 †Creed†
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9/17/2013 7:13:29 PM reply with quote send message to †Creed† Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

Ok, I'm commenting from experience as I am a "breeder" with two heart breeds.

My two breeds are APBT (American Pit Bull Terrier) and Beaucerons. Now, those two breeds have little to NO comparison and one might think "What the ****". However, in my situation I find that it always best ask ask a breeder their reasoning for having more then one breed. If they're devoted to what they do, reputable and responsible as well as educated and eager to help educate, they'll answer with no offense taken.

Myself, I have two breeds but I wouldn't call myself any "die-hard" breeder or even a kennel. I do have kennel prefixes and affixes associated with my lines, however, just to classify a particular breeding. However, I don't consider myself a "kennel" as, although I have intentionally bred litters, I do not do so very often. My last litter was bred two years ago, my first and only Beauceron litter. My last APBT litter was also 2 years ago and each puppy was reserved before the breeding was ever initiated. Now, some "breeders" have multiple dogs simply to meet "demand" (especially in designer dogs). I could list a website right now for a "kennel/"breeder" with 12 different breeds and not a single one would be deemed "show quality" for its breed. In fact, they don't even look purebred. THAT is a puppy mill that is in the process of being shut down. Now, I do know another kennel whom I could list that raises Coton de Tulear Goldens, Shibas and Shih Tzus. And she has some of the top ranked dogs in this country if not worldwide.

Now, I suppose in my own opinion, a BYB breeder or puppy miller is easily identified not by how many breeds they have, but of the condition of the breeds. Someone in it for money typically doesn't have any titles on their dogs, confines them to tight areas. Asks entirely too much money. Doesn't know a whole lot about lineage if any at all. Can't offer health quarantines. Can't provide pedigrees. Can't provide health screens or vet records on not jus the puppies but adults also. Doesn't want to discuss their breed and most of all, advertises on the Internet sites like Craigslist or Hoobly.

Ok. I have rambled enough. But my main point is that I do not believe number of breeds should reflect a breeders reputation or deem them a BYB. I believe it's the condition, living space, health and lineage of the dogs and the overall attitude of the "breeder".

As stated, I have two breeds but I rarely rarely rarely breed and when I do, it's for show/working purposes only. happy :)

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Last edited by †Creed† on 9/17/2013 7:46:23 PM
 Beach Dunes
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9/17/2013 7:40:26 PM reply with quote send message to Beach Dunes Object to Post

Don't worry about the long answer!
Everything helps. The longer the answer the better! I pretty much have the same opinion but my opinions constantly change(:
 †Creed†
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9/17/2013 7:47:01 PM reply with quote send message to †Creed† Object to Post

Hopefully that helped to broaden the pool of opinions. Lol
 Beach Dunes
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9/17/2013 7:50:22 PM reply with quote send message to Beach Dunes Object to Post

It helped a lot. The first paragraph made me giggle!
 †Creed†
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9/17/2013 7:53:55 PM reply with quote send message to †Creed† Object to Post

Yeah well, I've had that before. "What on earth....", "How do you have one of the most popular breeds and also one of the most rare?". But if someone asked me anything about either breed, buddy I would tell em to pull up a chair and prepare for education. I know my lines inside and out. laugh :D
 Beach Dunes
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9/17/2013 8:25:51 PM reply with quote send message to Beach Dunes Object to Post

quote
posted by †Creed†
Yeah well, I've had that before. "What on earth....", "How do you have one of the most popular breeds and also one of the most rare?". But if someone asked me anything about either breed, buddy I would tell em to pull up a chair and prepare for education. I know my lines inside and out. laugh :D
That's what really matter in the end. Well, in my opinion.
 griffin
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9/18/2013 4:27:03 AM reply with quote send message to griffin Object to Post

quote
posted by Beach Dunes

What do you think is the maximum number of dog breeds to have in one kennel?

Would you, as a customer, not invest in dogs from multiple breed kennels?

What do you think are the most important subcategories for breeding dogs?

As a person who bought from a Papillon breeder, I would say when looking for a breeder I preferred breeders which only bred one breed. The main reason for this is often breeders with multiple breeds had one large breed which they mainly bred (had 4+ females and 2+ males) and only bred Papillons on the side (only one or two females) so I was not confident they took it as seriously or put as much effort/thought into the Papilons as they did their 'main' breed. Usually in these cases the 'main' breed would also be multi-titled where as the Paps only had the basic conformation Ch.

That said, it depends greatly on the living circumstances of the breeders. For instance a couple who both work with dogs professionally will be able to keep up with the knowledge and expertise to breed multiple different breeds where as someone who works full time in a job completely unrelated to dogs will be much less able.

Doing the research and maintaining the connections necessary to properly breed more than three breeds (not to mention keeping, training, and looking after the dogs) seems unrealistic to me unless you are a rich heir/heiress with effectively unlimited funds and no need to work.

grif,
 Featherrun
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9/18/2013 11:46:27 AM reply with quote send message to Featherrun Object to Post

What a good question! If it helps, I have two breeds, and purposefully got into the second breed so that I could keep my mind fresh on the differences, nuances, and changes in breed type of both. For me, it keeps me active in not becoming kennel blind. Plus, they each have their own sports that I am active in. But it does double the workload, time and expense of particiapting in more then one sport, more then one national, etc.
 
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9/18/2013 6:11:02 PM reply with quote send message to Object to Post edit post

I think it's OK *IF* they meet the following criteria:
-All other responsible breeder criteria
-They are very knowledgeable about each breed: Conformation, health problems, the origins of the breed, etc.
-They can give you a detailed explanation of why they love and breed each breed
-They can describe a standard they are breeding to in each breed. This is a *major* point. If it is working stock, their standard might be something about only breeding dogs who are good at the work, both in temperament and structure. Obviously, if the standard is to breed the cutest dog or to breed double merles or something that's different.
-They have some evidence of success: show titles or you can see their working dogs in action. Maybe even working titles. If they have only recently become involved in some of the breeds, they might not have titles/accomplishments with ALL of their breeds, but they need to meet this criteria at least with one breed, and any breeds that they have been breeding for some time now. New breeders should NOT have 4 breeds.

Just my opinion. Also, IMO nobody should breed dogs to be just "family dogs". Obviously some of the dogs in a litter will go to pet homes, but considering how many rescues would happily fill that family dog position, there's no excuse to be breeding. I'm referring to breeders who do not show or work their dogs, breeders who ONLY breed dogs for temperament. Honestly, it isn't that hard to find a good tempered dog.
 Beach Dunes
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9/18/2013 6:17:08 PM reply with quote send message to Beach Dunes Object to Post

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quote
posted by
I think it's OK *IF* they meet the following criteria:
-All other responsible breeder criteria
-They are very knowledgeable about each breed: Conformation, health problems, the origins of the breed, etc.
-They can give you a detailed explanation of why they love and breed each breed
-They can describe a standard they are breeding to in each breed. This is a *major* point. If it is working stock, their standard might be something about only breeding dogs who are good at the work, both in temperament and structure. Obviously, if the standard is to breed the cutest dog or to breed double merles or something that's different.
-They have some evidence of success: show titles or you can see their working dogs in action. Maybe even working titles. If they have only recently become involved in some of the breeds, they might not have titles/accomplishments with ALL of their breeds, but they need to meet this criteria at least with one breed, and any breeds that they have been breeding for some time now. New breeders should NOT have 4 breeds.

Just my opinion. Also, IMO nobody should breed dogs to be just "family dogs". Obviously some of the dogs in a litter will go to pet homes, but considering how many rescues would happily fill that family dog position, there's no excuse to be breeding. I'm referring to breeders who do not show or work their dogs, breeders who ONLY breed dogs for temperament. Honestly, it isn't that hard to find a good tempered dog.

When I said family dogs I meant dogs that get along with children, get along will all creatures, and have enegry that will match children. Not all shelter dogs can meet this due to the bad experiences in that past. Some families can't risk taming the dog to become friendly. I thought I had my shelter dog accustomed to men but one day she randomly bit my grandfather. Something she will have a problem with);

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Last edited by Beach Dunes on 9/18/2013 6:17:44 PM
 ShoStopper
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9/19/2013 1:09:08 AM reply with quote send message to ShoStopper Object to Post

I've learned to be wary of extremism and absolutes. The fact of the matter is, I've met people that can't breed ONE breed well, and I've met other people who have been successful and knowledgeable in more than one (I know a few people who work in three breeds).

I have a list of criteria that is important to *me* as an owner/exhibitor, much of which has already been covered in previous posts. I always look for someone that knows their breed(s) intimately, that understands and can speak knowledgeably about the history of the breed and the standard, that understands lines and combinations of lines, that does not breed in a vacuum (in other words, they compete in some form of objective evaluation. For my purposes, this is conformation).

I want someone that health tests and carefully considers the possibilities behind breedings.I want someone that isn't just planning the "next" litter, but has a goal and a plan for their program beyond that--where are they going in the generations from now? What are they trying to achieve.

I want someone that keeps their dogs in excellent condition--mind, body, soul.

I also want someone that continues to be a student of the breed(s)--anyone who is convinced they know it all, and are the be-all-end-all of breed knowledge is not for me. There is always something to learn, someone else to speak to, another source to look into. If your ego tells you you've got it all down, I'm crossing you off the list.

I want someone that is mindful of where their puppies end up, and carefully screens homes, utilizes contracts, and provides support for new families.

If you can do all of these things for more than one breed, more power to you. I've known people that can.

I personally enjoy showing and working with more than one breed, and wouldn't be surprised to see myself listed as a breeder (eventually) in more than one.

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