.com Forum · Bug Reporting and Suggestions

So I suggested this as a comment before and decided to create a topic

I think that when we FH dogs the pricing should be as follows (per puppy):
Offspring of two champions: $10
Offspring of a GCH and a CH: $15
Offspring of two GCH's: $20
A champion: $20
A GCH: $30
(If a dog meets multiple criteria the dog gets both— so a GCh from GCH parents could be FHd for $50)
Anything else receives nothing, $0

This discourages puppy milling because requiring the dogs to be champions means that you need to put in the work to finish the dog, or the money in to buy a champion.

I think this is a good compromise for the people who would like to receive money for their efforts but don't want to encourage puppy mill kennels.

This makes champions more valuable, which encourages showing. This also makes flop litters worthwhile, and if there is less risk in breeding there will be more breeding. This will probably make stud fees go up for CH an GCH studs, and ultimately means more money being shuffled around.

A few suggestions for restrictions:
I would also suggest that there by a limit in place— for example, you can only FH 30 dogs per month for monetary compensation (this does not include dogs that don't qualify). You can still FH dogs but you won't receive anything in return.

Another possibility is to limit this to premium members.

For the offspring of CH/GCH rewards maybe this could be invalid if you did not breed either of the parents (this would prevent CHs from becoming more valuable, which is good and bad).

I would also like to add that if you are breeding champions to champions there's a good chance you might need to use an outside stud (I've only been getting showable females and no males) or buy a bitch, as well as the fact that the litter will have more keepers and less dogs FH'd than a lesser quality litter.

Constructive criticism is welcome but please be polite

I think I replied to your comment, but I thought I would post here as well. I really love this idea! I think it would make FHing easier, but not to easy (so no puppymills).
Mack

This is a nice idea linlin, and quite interesting.

But, I've been on here 2.5 years, nearly, and there's always been talk of getting paid for FHing dogs, so I'd like it, but I don't expect anything of it.

ETA: I breed, regardless. If there's a "Breed" button in my kennel, I can't leave it alone! I HAVE to push it...yeah, I'm crazy about that...

Alexandria

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Last edited by Laffy-Taffy Kennels on 12/17/2013 9:20:42 PM

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posted by Laffy-Taffy Kennels
This is a nice idea linlin, and quite interesting.

But, I've been on here 2.5 years, nearly, and there's always been talk of getting paid for FHing dogs, so I'd like it, but I don't expect anything of it.

ETA: I breed, regardless. If there's a "Breed" button in my kennel, I can't leave it alone! I HAVE to push it...yeah, I'm crazy about that...

Alexandria

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Last edited by Laffy-Taffy Kennels on 12/17/2013 9:20:42 PM

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Oh god yes, if I was breeding real dogs I would be exactly the type of person I hate in RL! My dogs can breed, so let's experiment a little and try them with this stud! There's nothing wrong with having 40 puppies (Newfies have litters of 7-13)... I'm sure the fact that I'm over the limit is completely unrelated...lol

Thanks for the support, and I do understand that chances are slim But with all the potential new changes coming 'round, who knows?

Oh, I know. The whole puppy mill thing I HATE IRL. But, it's perfectly acceptable on here...guess it's not quite as real as we would have it to be, right?

I can't stay under my limit...and it stinks. Even when I limited myself to Doxies only (well, except for 3 that I HAD to keep), I couldn't stay under...so, I figure, might as well dabble in other breeds, like I'm prone to do.

Alexandria

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Last edited by Laffy-Taffy Kennels on 12/18/2013 9:03:56 PM

I love this idea. Its not a super large amount of money but if you pay 100 for a stud fee of a GCH and get all bad dogs, you would be able to get some back

Another thing I was just thinking about--we should get paid after the Undo FH button goes away, or maybe added into our salary? That way nobody can FH more than once, if you're getting what I say

Alexandria

I think this idea has some definite merit, and I think it encourages showing, which is a huge thing for me.

It's one of the better ideas ive seen for the "getting paid to FH" thing.

I'm neutral to this suggestion.

I have nothing against those who would be deemed "puppy millers" on this game. There are some breeds that would cause a person to lose a lot more money to show in order to get this type of benefit from FHing puppies from finished parents.

I am considered a puppy mill in a couple of my kennels...
- I don't have money for showing. If not that, the breed is very rare and there's no competition for showing, and sometimes I just plain old don't enjoy stacking with my own dogs if it doesn't help someone else too.
- I am helping the breed move forward. It's not like I'm just breeding and selling crappy dogs.
- I pay to play; it is my choice how I want to play the game. If I don't want to show, so be it; it doesn't make me a "puppy mill."
- I am not the only one with more than 10 dogs for breeding stock.
- The sim dogs don't care. They don't die from being bred every heat, there's no illness, there's nothing.

I think the best part of this suggestion is to get the money thing going in the game, not to prevent puppy mills. Heck, "puppy mills" would probably increase; they would just show. Showing doesn't automatically make you a good breeder. The limit is a good idea, then.

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posted by Laffy-Taffy Kennels
Another thing I was just thinking about--we should get paid after the Undo FH button goes away, or maybe added into our salary? That way nobody can FH more than once, if you're getting what I say

Alexandria

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I totally forgot about that, I definitely agree though. Thank you

Phantom, I see your point about puppy mills not really being bad on SD, similar to people who breed DQ colors.

You are right that puppy mills that show dogs would emerge, and I don't really have a problem with that. That wouldn't happen in RL so I'm not sure I would even call it a puppy mill.

I also can't disagree that some breeds would need to spend more money than they would gain in order to finish dogs, but this wouldn't penalize them.

I define puppy mill as having lots of dogs and breeding them for the sole purpose of making money— bettering the breed does not automatically make a breeder a puppy mill.

However, the Help center says: "Users are not paid for sending dogs to Forever Homes because this would encourage people to raise many, many litters of puppies just to earn money. The goal should be to breed dogs that are of good quality, not to breed lots and lots of pet puppies just to increase your profit margin."

I'm against. It is possible to make money right now if you budget correctly- not much, but you can make a profit, that's part of the game.

My breed routinely has 8-10puppy litters. It is no problem for my to finish GCHs. When you really add this up, it can be abused for quite large sums of money. 10 litters of 10pups from 2GCH parents bred solely for the money- nets me $2,000!

And I don't really view FHing of adult dogs to be something that should be a money maker. GCHs and CHs should make their money through stud fees and, in good times, show winnings. FHing them is just what you do when they've moved on past their prime.

Are times lean right now? Yes. But I don't view this as the answer, but rather one more thing that can be abused, and that will start to skew the minimum balance even LESS in our favor, thus decreasing salary.

I love this idea, especially as it encourages showing much more but I still see how it could be abused as Lilliput (I think) said.

Emma

I keep reading this subject and I just have to say that I have thought a lot about it. I think the problem of "puppy milling" could be to only allow a kennel to "sell for profit" by only allowing a kennel to sell say 10 pups per week. Thus not allowing a kennel to make big money but still be able make up to an extra $400 per month. It would help all kennels to earn equal amounts if they choose and still not make a huge change in the game. I think it WOULD increase the number of showable dogs without hurting the salary too much either way. It would give every one no matter the number of pups per litter the chance to make the same amount of extra income.

Just another way to approach this idea.

Nan

I'm more than open to placing limits, and this is a rough idea so suggest away.

Yes, I like that too, Nan! We'll perfect this between all us SDers...

Alexandria

Let me put it this way. in RL even if i were finding a good home for a dog that isn't showable or dosnt like it etc. it would never be free. i have still sheltered fed and veted this dog for however long. i fed and sheltered and veted the mother through her pregnancy. I at least need to try to make some of that back. the way i see it its pretty simular to SD because we have to do the Same thing minus the vet. i think its a good idea but maybe the amounts are too high. just MHO. But any small amout comming back when fhing i think would bring it closer to rl.
-Tash

hum...... I'm not sure where I stand on this. I like the idea of limiting it to cases where both parents have show titles (it might also be worth including obedience titles too), because that incentivises showing females - in my breed showing has always been dominated by males.

Potential biases this introduces:
1) favours breeds which have big litters -> more money/litter (Note: big litter breeds already have an advantage over small litter breeds)
2) favours breeds which are quicker to session -> quicker to session = quicker to show = quicker to get Ch/GCh = more income generating litters.
3) favours breeds with more showing going on -> easier/faster to get show titles.
4) favours paying users hugely compared to basics -> Not only does this do nothing for basics once their one-month breeding window is over, it would also greatly depress daily salary which basics recieve.

Historically alot of the showing in the game was done by basics since they did not get to breed, also we don't want it to be so hard for basics that they choose to quit rather than subscribe.

Also in general this encourages showing in the largest show of the day to get more points/majors.

ETA: It would create a nice counter-weight to the advantages of young bitches.

grif,

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Last edited by griffin on 12/23/2013 12:32:40 PM

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posted by Quiet Acres
Let me put it this way. in RL even if i were finding a good home for a dog that isn't showable or dosnt like it etc. it would never be free.
-Tash

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Traditionally the argument against this point is that in SD we are blessed with infinite pet homes ready to take our unwanted dogs which is not the case IRL. Also on SD at the moment the only costs going into a litter is feeding the parents.

grif,

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posted by griffin

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posted by Quiet Acres
Let me put it this way. in RL even if i were finding a good home for a dog that isn't showable or dosnt like it etc. it would never be free.
-Tash

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Traditionally the argument against this point is that in SD we are blessed with infinite pet homes ready to take our unwanted dogs which is not the case IRL. Also on SD at the moment the only costs going into a litter is feeding the parents.

grif,

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That's true. And I don't know about y'all but that's a relief to me!

But, Grif, those of use who use outside studs DO have to pay those fees, so it's not *just* feeding parents.

Alexandria

I do not play the game, but I've been quietly lurking about, and here is my opinion. My girlfriend plays several of these websites who are all owned by the same owner.

You can have 10 pregnancies in one single kennel. After 5 days, you can breed that same bitch until her death. You can breed a bitch from day 30 to death. So one SINGLE bitch can produce numerous litters, but add 9 more bitches to that. Or, you can have even bitches and odd bitches. The even bitches are bred when the odd bitches arent bred, and they go in that cycle, bred at every chance they are able. It would be VERY easy to make yourself a puppy mill, very easy. Most studs can be seen at a low price of 25 dollars, or you can buy a stud for only 100 dollars OR get a starter stud, at zero cost.

This is a horrible idea and will be abused by many players who don't make a earning buck off showing and selling.

I understand your point, Griff, but I am thinking of those players that are unable to champ or breed dogs that still have an abundance of puppies.

This includes basics. Many times they take a dog and have to spend forever to champ a dog. They spend a lot of money on those dogs that they get nothing out of except the expense. My thought is that this is helpful to them also, as you mentioned using a sliding scale for GCH, CH, Unchamped dogs and puppies. If they champ the dog they make more money than to buy and sell unchamped dogs.

I think there would be abuse of idea of making money from selling dogs and pups no matter what one comes up with but I still like the idea of all of us making a little more cash back.

The only other choice would to go back to cash being paid out for winning in shows as it used to be. This created a problem with people not sharing their unchamped dogs to basics to show and many people feeling that unless they had the best dogs to show there was no reason to put them in shows as they had to pay to prepare the dog to show only to not be able to win over the better dogs.

We need more ideas but I think we are at least looking at it in a logicial way and we can finally get it to where we can get Jeff to agree.

Keep this going and keep the ideas coming.

Nan