.com Forum · Real Show Dogs

Just as Westminster KC had a theme a while ago where as all the judges who judged the group were past BIS winners. A thought hit me once it seemed like there was a trend, that the number 1 in the group had an automatic entry into BIS. What I'd be interested to see is a complete international panel at group level (and possibly BIS). Judges who has very little exposure to dogs there shown in he states. Would be nice to see what happens there.

I've shown in Australia (not for a while now though!) and when I was showing 7-8 years ago, most of the big 'Royal' shows would have a panel of international judges doing the judging.

Jessica

Although that is an interesting concept, you need to understand that some of the breed standards are INTERPRETED very differently from country to country. There are even subtle difference in some of the standards just over the Border in Canada! And let's face it ... these are generally American dogs being shown in the US. Ten years ago, this may also have "leveled the playing field" somewhat, but with the internet and social media so available world wide, don't think that the "Foreign" judges don't know who is winning in each and every country if they keep current with their validation. The sad, bottom line is that unless you use the dogs generally acknowledged to be the current better representatives of their breed, that judge won't be getting many more invitations to judge . There were many "upsets" this weekend at Eukanuba at the breed level on Saturday and the Group judges had a hard time (in some cases) finding the quality of dogs they were used to seeing. The BIS lineup last night was LEGITIMATE as far as quality dogs is concerned and any one of them could have walked out deserving that title! That Skye is an incredible "type" for his breed!! I too have a problem with "handler judging" and yes, there are judges who resort to that when they can't make up their minds between two dogs of (hopefully) pretty equal merit, but there are also MANY excellent judges who actually look at and assess only the dogs and NOT who is holding the leash!! When you do your entries for a show, the judges are always listed for your breed ... there are many I don't waste my money showing to, but there are fortunately, a lot who I value their opinion of my dog and that's what I'm paying for. If I don't like the results, it's my option to withhold my entry from them in the future

We have had international judges at Eukanuba in the past. My judge in 2013 was from South America I believe. It was very different and judging was almost difficult because you didn't know what he liked, looked for or considered standard. Their interpretation is a lot different than ours, so what we consider a stellar dog they may find too heavy or too light or wrong in coat type or movement etc.....

While it is interesting to have judges from over seas to learn from them, handling under them is not always something I look forward to.

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posted by
Although that is an interesting concept, you need to understand that some of the breed standards are INTERPRETED very differently from country to country. There are even subtle difference in some of the standards just over the Border in Canada! And let's face it ... these are generally American dogs being shown in the US. Ten years ago, this may also have "leveled the playing field" somewhat, but with the internet and social media so available world wide, don't think that the "Foreign" judges don't know who is winning in each and every country if they keep current with their validation. The sad, bottom line is that unless you use the dogs generally acknowledged to be the current better representatives of their breed, that judge won't be getting many more invitations to judge . There were many "upsets" this weekend at Eukanuba at the breed level on Saturday and the Group judges had a hard time (in some cases) finding the quality of dogs they were used to seeing. The BIS lineup last night was LEGITIMATE as far as quality dogs is concerned and any one of them could have walked out deserving that title! That Skye is an incredible "type" for his breed!! I too have a problem with "handler judging" and yes, there are judges who resort to that when they can't make up their minds between two dogs of (hopefully) pretty equal merit, but there are also MANY excellent judges who actually look at and assess only the dogs and NOT who is holding the leash!! When you do your entries for a show, the judges are always listed for your breed ... there are many I don't waste my money showing to, but there are fortunately, a lot who I value their opinion of my dog and that's what I'm paying for. If I don't like the results, it's my option to withhold my entry from them in the future

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The judging that went on all week prior to Eukanuba was odd and quite frankly there were comments made by judges to other judges out in the open about picking based on handler. It's very frustrating, especially when you know you have a high quality, strong representation of your breed and you are looked over for the simple fact that you are not professional. I saw this happen a few times over the weekend. Kind of disappointing. I do agree that the Skye was gorgeous, as was the rest of the BIS line up. I feel that the previous BIS winner should not be eligible though, so I feel that Matisse representing the working group was a bit unfair, but that is just my opinion and I don't feel he is lacking quality at all.

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posted by
Although that is an interesting concept, you need to understand that some of the breed standards are INTERPRETED very differently from country to country.

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Its not so much that standards are interpreted different, standard are different. A disqualification in the U.S.A. for chows (usually cream) a liver colored nose. However, in Canada, FCI and England (I think that they are the holders of the FCI standard for the chow so it might not be valid) a liver color nose is acceptable.

The following year when AKC/Eukanuba Invitational hosted their first Eukanuba World Challenge and the (ASCOB)Cocker Spaniel won (with the tail), I read a column on international affairs about dog shows. How grooming, type, concepts of docking and cropping varies etc etc from country to country and it shouldn't cloud a judges view in selecting a really good dog.

I believe the Judges are supposed to judge the dogs according to the standard in the country they are judging in. If they are not then it is up to the ring steward to make sure they point out the book of Breed Standards for the country available on the Judge's table in every ring and for the Show Officials to make sure that each foreign judge is reminded of this fact BEFORE judging commences.

Of course that's how it is suppose to be. An American judge can't be hired and implement his countries standard in another say England. For the mere facts that some standards contradict one another and aren't the same.