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This is a commonly recurring issue so I thought rather than wrapping it up with various suggestions on how to change the economy we could instead get a feeling for how users feel they themselves are doing and how the economy is affecting their enjoyment of the game. Please answer honestly.

grif,

How do you feel about the SD Economy?

It's fine! I enjoy the challenge of budgeting my kennel wisely and still have fun.		22.73%
It's tough! I have to sacrifice too much to keep my kennel afloat.		43.64%
It's impossible! I can't keep my kennel out of debt and play the game.		19.09%
It's great! I have enough money to do what I want in the game.		14.55%

I voted its fine, but I'm more than happy where I'm at. Not rich, but I can still do what I want and still adore SD!!

So, it's great but I'm poor.

I am not in debt by any means but that is only because I am not producing as many litters as I would like due to the stud fee cost. I am also either showing or breeding, rarely am I doing both.

When I have a litter due I show a dog or two at a time and not often enough. When I don't have a litter due I can show multiple dogs, I can enter shows with dogs who I am just trying to achieve points on rather than a title (if that makes sense)

If I did both heavily I would be in debt so I have to choose what I want to do any given day and what is more important, which makes it hard to get ahead in any breed. I also have to pass up good opportunities to purchase a dog simply because I will never make that money back!

I voted its fine because I'm not in debt myself. But I'm still 100% in favor of bonuses for accomplishments. I think it would help boost the activity level of SD. I also 100% sympathize with those who do struggle with debt, and can support why they'd want a change or added bonus system. My kennels are old and established and have had years to build up a balance, I believe it would be hard to start a new kennel in this economy.

I voted its fine, I can breed as much as I want, can keep my food bill under the salary limit the majority of the time. I just have to be choosey on who I session to show and only train one dog at a time.

I choose not to spend all my money trying to train/show every dog I own, just as I choose not to spend all my money sponsoring shows or spend $1000 buying in new dogs.

So, I have been all over the map financially from having to spend money to avoid losing it to being in the hole. It's always been fun and I have always been able to do what I want with my dogs.

However, I have often wondered if the game would be more popular if we could ease the financial burden for so many who constantly struggle. Or if those who struggle would still struggle no matter how much money flowed in.

In real life kennels, budgeting is ALWAYs a factor so I have liked that it's a factor here as well. I guess I enjoy the challenge and watching money come and go.

I do think it would be nice to get a financial bonus for accomplishments (GCH or sire/dam merits). I think it would encourage people to show and it would be a nice reward. Also too bad that show payouts seem to have disappeared - they used to be a nice surprise bonus.

Good poll - will be watching results.

K

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posted by Kalynda
However, I have often wondered if the game would be more popular if we could ease the financial burden for so many who constantly struggle. Or if those who struggle would still struggle no matter how much money flowed in.

K

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good point Kalynda, if some one is watching there balance going down and down and they end up so far in dept they cant play they have had the chance to think about changing how they are playing and didn't do anything so will it just happen to them again if more money is added to the game some how.

When I first joined this game when I was younger I was like that, I went into dept very fast and ended up leaving then coming back again with a new kennel later on and the same thing happened again. It took a while until I had enough of not having any balance and having to quit and I matured a bit that I decided to sit down and have a look at what I could do to be able to breed and show with out losing all my money.
So for how I was when I first joined it wouldn't of mattered how much money I was given as I didn't see the need to manage it I just wanted to do everything at once. Im not saying everyone who is in dept here is like how I was when I joined but im willing to bet many people are like I was.

one dog sim im on you can earm money playing games so realy easy to make lots of money yet some people on there still moan they don't have enough money to do stuff.

I also chose its fine, although I admit it is tougher than it once was, and I wouldn't be opposed to something to ease that.

I also agree with Kalynda and PPVallhunds- I've been on SD for over a decade now, and it seems there is ALWAYS a portion of users who are unhappy with the budget. People who want a never-ending supply of money so they can breed and show as much as they want and never go into debt. Sometimes it's quite a vocal portion, but it's a complaint that's been lodged for as long as I can remember, even when times were great.

That said, you certainly need even MORE patience and penny pinching to survive in the game right now, and I think that is difficult for players who do not have years of studying the ins and outs of various techniques. I certainly play a much different game now and have to police my finances much more than I did back in the day, and I can see how that might drive away even more players. I'm not sure infusing money is the answer, since we will still be short players, but I'm not opposed to some sort of tweaks to improve the situation.

Hi,
I chose "It's tough'. While I'm not in debt yet, I can see how it could happen, as day after day I slowly watch my balance dwindle.
One of my original reasons for quitting showdog was because of the money issues. When I first started playing someone accidentally sold me an AWESOME dog, and I was rolling in stud fees for a long time. But slowly that started to dwindle, people stopped using outside studs and my balance just kept going down.

One of the things I've struggled with is food pricing. Could it not just say how much per dog per night?

I also show in one popular breed (Goldens) and several unpopular breeds (Sussex Spaniels and Flat Coats). In Sussex I'm the only breeder. If I want to have champions I have to build majors. It sucks and it burns through money. I just don't see the point of playing if I'm not going to title great dogs, or breed new dogs.

One thing I do like about the game now, is that puppies settle immediately so I can get rid of those that aren't great, without having them eating my money for 10 days.

But unlike the old days people don't buy great dogs ... nor do they use great sires (my boy got BIS a week ago, the only person using him is me!) not do they seem at all aware of what is going on in other kennels. Back in the day I remember regularly going on lists for 2nd Pick of litter out of a great paring. Now not so much.

I wonder about the idea someone mentioned of pairing salary to involvement in forums etc, or building community, or even raising amount received for payouts.

I don't know what the solution is, but I think that continuing to do nothing will lead to people leaving and less people makes the game harder for those who stay.

Jessica

I have two kennels that are managing nicely, they have dogs with smaller bellies and are a popular breed & I do ok at shows, the other three I struggle to keep cash in them. So I'm kind of split on the vote at the moment.

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posted by Halcyon Delight
I have two kennels that are managing nicely, they have dogs with smaller bellies and are a popular breed & I do ok at shows, the other three I struggle to keep cash in them. So I'm kind of split on the vote at the moment.

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Do you enjoy play in each of the kennels equally or do you have more fun playing the richer kennels or more fun playing the poorer kennels?

If you prefer playing the rich kennels, then vote "It's tough!" if you have equal fun playing each then vote "It's fine!" if you have more fun playing the poorer kennels vote "It's great!"

grif,

I do not understand how folks are finding breeding expensive anymore.

Jeff allowed us to start offering $25 & $50 stud feeds. So the cost of an outside stud is a drop in the bucket. Almost EVERY breed has cheap studs.

Jeff did away with the 10 day settling stats and now we do not have to keep all the pups in a litter until Day 10.

This has cut the cost of breeding by atleast 75%.

Cost of showing is a different story... but breeding costs should be a non discussion comparing it against previous expensives.

Will

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Last edited by Solimar on 12/23/2014 6:46:58 PM

Will,

Breeding can be an expensive endeavor. Yes, most breeds have $25 and $50 studs and some of those studs are nice dogs, but some aren't. So why breed to them?

I have personally seen very expensive studs in some of my breeds, and unfortunately they are very nice dogs, who are now unusable for some people.

And if you breed on a large scale and use mostly outside studs, it's expensive. So yes, it is a topic to be discussed.

Given that we can FH from birth because they're settled from birth, even breeding on a large scale needn't be expensive. Using expensive outside studs is a choice, not a necessity. If I want to breed to a stud, and he's priced more than I want to pay, I do one of 2 things- a. cut a deal with his owner for a reduced stud fee (often even just sending a note works (hey, I want to breed to Romeo, but he's a bit out of my range- could you drop the fee for me?) or B. I don't breed to him but find another dog with comparable traits for less, or one of his sons etc. That's part of the deal too- if you price your studs at $500 each, I'm not going to use them.

This game is NOT about being able to do whatever you want with unlimited funds- it's about learning to budget, and if you don't have the budget for large scale breeding, then you don't do it.

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posted by Spyte
And if you breed on a large scale and use mostly outside studs, it's expensive. So yes, it is a topic to be discussed.

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You would either need to cut back on your scale or use cheaper studs.... so a discussion would need to happen with ones self.

Will

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posted by Lilliput
That's part of the deal too- if you price your studs at $500 each, I'm not going to use them.

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I have recently decided to keep my studs at $500. After working on my breeds for almost a decade, I believe other users shouldn't get a head start without paying for it. I will be glad to sell someone brood bitch or two to help them get started, but my boys will no longer be cheap dates.

I know my males won't be used as much, but I've always created kennel budgets that do not rely on puppy sales or stud services. Those are just icing on the cake.

Will

One tactic that has worked very well for me is pairing a popular, profitable breed (such as Danes in this kennel) with an obscure breed with no sales (German Spitz in this case). It allows me enough income to session and show the unpopular breed too. I do have to do "more with less" with two breeds in a kennel but I'm often near the top for SOP even in the popular breed. I had a Dane silver sire here recently.

I do poorly with money in kennels that are color projects/unpopular breeds only.

I do budget and I don't breed on a large scale, therefore that issue isn't one I come across very often. I do know of people who do struggle with stud fees and being able to breed to outside studs.

Solimar, I totally understand working on your dogs for nearly a decade but in my opinion, $500 is just kinda pointless. Why even put them up for stud if you aren't willing to let them be used in people's price ranges, just my opinion.

I do budget and I don't breed on a large scale, therefore that issue isn't one I come across very often. I do know of people who do struggle with stud fees and being able to breed to outside studs.

Solimar, I totally understand working on your dogs for nearly a decade but in my opinion, $500 is just kinda pointless. Why even put them up for stud if you aren't willing to let them be used in people's price ranges, just my opinion.

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posted by Spyte
Solimar, I totally understand working on your dogs for nearly a decade but in my opinion, $500 is just kinda pointless. Why even put them up for stud if you aren't willing to let them be used in people's price ranges, just my opinion.

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That's the great part of the game... My dog's... My price... I am OK with folks not using them.

Will

I chose to get out of Staffies and just focus on my French Bulldogs as I'm currently the top #4 FB kennel. However, it's not that competitive of a breed IMO and there's only one or two studs being used. I have a hard time selling puppies and have FH'd a lot of them that I think could have been finished - however I am trying to finish a GCh on my one boy, a Ch on a female and am sessioning another boy and trying to decide if I'm going to keep his sister or not!