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Author | Topic : Working on color genes | |||
Breckenridge Poodles Basic User Posts : 195 |
Ok so I am willing to do the work for finding the genes that we need to give Jeff but I need ya'lls input!
The Poodle Club of America states that any solid color is accepted so here are the colors: Black White Cream Blue Silver Brown Red Apricot Grey Café-au-Late Personally I think grey and silver are the same but I will double check to make sure when I find the genes. So speak up and tell me what you guys think! Tammy Breckenridge Poodles |
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Breckenridge Poodles Basic User Posts : 195 |
Genotypes Coat Color Nose Color HiddenColor EEBB black black - EeBB black black cream EEBb black black brown EeBb black black cream and brown eeBB cream black black eeBb cream black black and brown eebb cream brown brown EEbb brown brown - Eebb brown brown cream So now I need to find the gene things for silver, white and a few others Tammy |
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Worpoli Basic User Posts : 25 |
I would love to offer my input, but honestly im that experienced with the poodles colour genetics, as my real life breed is Australian Shepherds. Sorry guys! Kelly |
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Dzur Mountain Basic User Posts : 31 |
www.netpets.com/dogs/reference/genetics/pdlcolor.html This is the site that I found. I think the difference between some of the shadings is an undercoat-overcoat thing. This is my understanding on purely the colour: Black BBEEvv Brown bbEEvv Apricot BBeevv Blue BBEEVv Silver-Beige BBeeVv Cream BBeeVv Silver BBEEVV champagne bbEEVV White BBeeVV There is a lot of other stuff there, but it went largely over my head. My degree is in Economics, not Biology |
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BassetHeaven Basic User Posts : 10 |
Oh Dear, I'm from Scotland and in the UK we do not recognize as many colours as the US. Here were recognize Black , Blue , Silver , Apricol , Brown and White. I think it is important though that Jeff knows the if you breed Black to white you can get Blacks and Whites in your litter but if you Breed White to White no matter what colour is behing them that you only ever get whites in your litter. Hope this helps. Calum |
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Long Shot Basic User Posts : 86 |
From memory Jeff said we should go with AKC recognised colours. I personally can't see any point in including DQ colours although some breeds have. Working on colour in a couple of my other breeds, I'd suggest, unless you're a geneticist, to keep it as simple as possible. AKC recognised colours, what results from those matings and the general proportion of the colours in the overall population. Try not to go too small with any particular colour, otherwise it's likely to be lost, so if necessary stretch the truth a bit, lol. I think Jeff's happy to leave that side of it up to us. If you're not sure you've got it right, there are several very cluey people around to help out. A plea for help in the main colour post that's going usually works wonders. Also, as Mins, Toys and Standards presumably all carry the same colours a post in the other forums may get some more input. |
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Long Shot Basic User Posts : 86 |
Also Silver Beige is listed as a recognised colour with the AKC. |
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Breckenridge Poodles Basic User Posts : 195 |
Ok so can we agree that these are the colors that we will work with? (This list is per AKC website) Apricot Black Blue Brown Cafe Au Lait Cream Gray Red Silver Silver Beige White We also need to decide percentages, I propose the following: Apricot 5% Black 30% Blue 5% Brown 10% Cafe Au Lait 1% Cream 10% Gray 2% (can anyone tell me the difference in grey and silver?) Red 1% Silver 5% Silver Beige 1% White 30% Tammy |
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Sasilasy Poodles Basic User Posts : 424 |
Silver is Grey....Just some people differ in colour opinion depending on how the colour fades out after coat change. |
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Dzur Mountain Basic User Posts : 31 |
I like the percentages. The difference between grey and silver seems to be shading. Grey shades more from a black bottom coat and silver from a white. I could be completely wrong. I vote we forget grey and just go with silver, just because silver sounds more cool |
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Sasilasy Poodles Basic User Posts : 424 |
Dzur...Your right it does depends on Shading as the coat fades out , but Silver as far as I'm concerned is the only recognized Solid Colour. |
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Breckenridge Poodles Basic User Posts : 195 |
Ok so do we want to roll the grey and silver percentages together ? That would give silver a little bit larger of the starter population. like this: Apricot 5% Black 30% Blue 5% Brown 10% Cafe Au Lait 1% Cream 10% Red 1% Silver 7% Silver Beige 1% White 30% Tammy |
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Dzur Mountain Basic User Posts : 31 |
I've been pondering this. I looked at the other poodles and they do not seem to be talking about this a whole lot. For simplicitiy's sake (and going over what info we could find), Why don't we roll red in to appricot and cafe a lait in to brown? Less is more in a lot of cases and I think we have a better chance of being implemented without issue if we keep at simple as we can and still have a nice variety. Opinions? |
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Breckenridge Poodles Basic User Posts : 195 |
Im fine with rolling red in to apricot and cafe a lait in to brown, but I think we have to remember that once this is done I dont think we can go back and change anything. Although that does bring into question the dilute factor because if my understanding is correct you cant have a dilute (apricot or cafe a lait or even silver) without having a dominante color first (red, brown or black) I could be way off base so please correct me if Im wrong. Tammy |
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Dzur Mountain Basic User Posts : 31 |
I didn't think about the dominance thing, so I will change my opinion to those two staying. Do we have everything we need for the genetics themselves, or do we still need more research? |
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Dzur Mountain Basic User Posts : 31 |
Okay, looking at this further, I think that oddly enough, the apricot might be the dominate. I will note that I hated the whole genetics thing in biology, so this may be a bit off base because I wasn't paying attention BB black bb brown EE White ee apricot VV silver vv blue FF red in apricot and brown dd dilution factor (brown for cafe au lait?) Black BBEEvv Brown bbEEvv Apricot BBeevv Blue BBEEVv Silver-Beige BBeeVv Cream BBeeVv Silver BBEEVV White BBeeVV Red BBeevvFF or bbEEvvFF Cafe Au Lait bbEEvvdd |
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Breckenridge Poodles Basic User Posts : 195 |
Dzur, After reading the website I am in agreement with you about apricot being the dominante color. And I do believe that those codes you posted are the correct ones. So if we are in agreement should we post this to the forum (with the percentages) so we can get color? Tammy |
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SmallWorld Basic User Posts : 117 |
Hi everyone, not a Mini breeder but I do have Toys, and our forum is very in active. I just wanted to say I would agree to rolling some of the "like" colors together, cafe au lait to brown and grey to silver Hope you guys don't mind, but I think all poodles will have the same genetics! Wendy |
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Dzur Mountain Basic User Posts : 31 |
I think that with all of the trouble I went through to figure out red and cafe a lait, I would rather just keep them now. I cannot say for certain if all poodles will have the same genetics, I get the sense from what I have been reading, that all dogs share a base genotypes when it comes to coloring, which makes sense because I believe that most humans share the same genotypes, they simply display different colourations because of dominance, partial-dominance, and mutation (So see, I was paying SOME attention in biology). Have you guys over in Toys worked out any of the genotypes? I would like to compare what I came up with to someone else's, just to make sure that I got it right. |
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Jakes Jacks Basic User Posts : 469 |
I'm looking forward to seeing what the mini group decides on as I believe these colors will be used by all of the poodles. I have Toys at this time and am looking forward to see what colors they are. |
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Dzur Mountain Basic User Posts : 31 |
I think that if there are no objections, you can go ahead and post our results, Tammy. I will let you have the honours since you got us going and kept us going Mari Dzur Mountain |
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