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Author Topic : Contract
 Emily.Rose.
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7/21/2019 6:29:38 AM reply with quote send message to Emily.Rose. Object to Post   

Hello! I was curious if others use a contract when then sell dog/puppies or when you bought, did you have to sign a contract?
I've only ever had to sign a contract once and I've personally never used them because there was no reason to. The contract I had to sign was mainly just transfer of ownership and not much else. However, talking to some of the big breeders lately, they are urging me to do a contract for dog/puppies I sell.
Talking to other owners, who do not sell or breed, they do not particularly care for a lot of the contracts. I was talking to someone and they said they had to sign a fourteen page contract. In that particular instance, the buyer really thought that the contract was just a lot of legal loopholes for the breeder (some things like, if you do not feed a certain food and particular vitamins, it will void their hip dysplasia guarantee). When talking to the breeder, they said that was their way of looking out for their puppies.
What are your thoughts on contracts?
 Sukai Kennel
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7/21/2019 6:53:58 AM reply with quote send message to Sukai Kennel Object to Post

I have used contracts as well as having to sign them, it is designed to protect you as well as the dogs you have sold/selling, for example if something happens like the person you sell to has money issues and can't take care of the dog they will contact you first to give you first right in taking the dog back to rehome it instead of it going to a shelter or being abandoned on the side of the road somewhere.
it also prevents non show home dogs or retired dogs from getting bred and that person selling those pups and possibly doing it more then once to the dog, that would be a spay contract that would and can be also used has once the dog is retired it must be spayed
but I find contracts very helpful and i also find that people who have issues signing them have something to hide but people sometimes slip through the precaution measures that are in place and a dog who you thought was in a good home ends up in a bad position. so be very caution and do home checks if you can, and run references from those people and for those references make sure you put no relatives cause sometimes people will hide their true self from family
if you would like to know more you can message me here or I can give you my email
 
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7/23/2019 1:08:25 PM reply with quote send message to Object to Post edit post

I had to sign one once. I was adopting a 4 year old retired mastiff bitch. She had to be spayed due to pyometra, but was otherwise sound and healthy. Even though I knew the family and there was no adoption fee,they still wanted to assure she was going to be happy and well cared for. If I could no longer care for her,they would taker her back. Luckily,she lived to see 12 years old,and loved farm life.
 Ruan
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7/24/2019 6:46:09 AM reply with quote send message to Ruan Object to Post

My experience is that when buying from a reputable breeder, there's always a contract. I've always had to sign one when when buying a purebred dog or cat, and my parents always had contracts when selling their Great Dane puppies.

They did actually have a clause in there about food, because Great Dane puppies have very unique dietary requirements to help them grow properly. You can't just feed them whatever you can get on special offer at the supermarket and expect them to be healthy. So, as breeders, my parents had to include dietary recommendations, and include in the contract that any health problems that result from an inadequate diet aren't the breeder's fault. Otherwise people would feed terrible food and then sue the breeder when their puppy gets sick.
 Emily.Rose.
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7/25/2019 6:04:46 AM reply with quote send message to Emily.Rose. Object to Post

quote
posted by Ruan
They did actually have a clause in there about food, because Great Dane puppies have very unique dietary requirements to help them grow properly. You can't just feed them whatever you can get on special offer at the supermarket and expect them to be healthy. So, as breeders, my parents had to include dietary recommendations, and include in the contract that any health problems that result from an inadequate diet aren't the breeder's fault. Otherwise people would feed terrible food and then sue the breeder when their puppy gets sick.
I've seen that several times for mastiff type breeds in contracts. Where, if you do not feed so and so food, you void the hip dysplasia guarantee. Not quite the same, but it gets you thinking.
 This Old Barn
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7/30/2019 7:58:32 PM reply with quote send message to This Old Barn Object to Post

I feel like contracts are 100% pointless. It doesn’t mean anything unless it specifically states damages I’ve been told they are not even enforceable.
A contract does not make a good breeder. I understand why people do them just seems pointless on the owner side.
- I have good relations with my dogs breeder. She ask for updates and pictures regularly. I have 2 dogs from her and tbh I don’t know if I ever sign a contract with her.
- I have a mixed dog who I had to sign a contacts with the rescue but I still regularly talk to his foster mom and updates the rescue. Lol yes I’m THAT person. But tbh if I didn’t update them idk if they would ever contact me for an update

- I did sign a contact with a sport breeder... but that breeder never contacted us again after bringing him home. When I ended up rehoming him I sent her the email saying I was considering rehoming him since per the contact “she got first dibs” and she her reply was ok and nothing else. I ended up rehoming him, letting her know, and she has never once asked me about him or where he is or anything.

So I guess to me a contract is totally worthless.
Just my .02

 Emily.Rose
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7/30/2019 9:47:39 PM reply with quote send message to Emily.Rose Object to Post

quote
posted by This Old Barn
I feel like contracts are 100% pointless. It doesn’t mean anything unless it specifically states damages I’ve been told they are not even enforceable.
I've talked to several people (and our family lawyer) and they have all said the same thing about being able to enforce it. I've basically have heard two separate debates on it. One being that when you sell something, it is now that person's property. Since dogs fall under the category of property, there isn't much you can do. I have then also heard the other side of the argument that since more people are going to court over contracts, it is becoming more common for breeders to win their case (although, with my research, I think the number for winning cases is still relatively low).
 This Old Barn
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8/1/2019 3:31:38 PM reply with quote send message to This Old Barn Object to Post

Ik there are good breeders who have contracts!
But the other things is if your contracts states you want X, Y, Z... do you actually check to make sure those request are being followed? How often do you check? Is it based on person word or do they have to show proof?
 Armament
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8/8/2019 10:18:56 PM reply with quote send message to Armament Object to Post

I do not in any way think contracts are worthless or pointless.

However, my one and only experience with one was pretty much a nightmare.

It seems that contracts really mostly protect the breeder and his/her assets and maybe the dog and can often leave the owner in a hard situation - at least that was my experience.

My experience was I unknowingly bought for full price a (for lack of better words) fear aggressive mastiff from a breeder I trusted. I wanted to do sports with him but never could as he couldn't be approached, nevermind touched. So, I put a couple years into him and probably upwards of $30k of training and other things required for his several needs that were never divulged to me (perhaps they were never known). I had to return him (complying with my contract) after a tragic loss in my family, I was never compensated a penny, expected to cover shipping costs ($800 - which included me meeting someone approx 10 hours' drive away and paying for their gas) and the breeder no longer talks to me even though I did everything right by them, the dog, and only ever looked after his/her assets.

I don't expect compensation, but going through a contract with a less than stellar temperament now has shown me a different side of contracts, as I always was 100% okay with signing a contract. Now I am a little uneasy about them. It is not that I have anything to hide. It's more that the breeder hid things from me.

It seems that so many things can happen after signing a contract...

a) If you get into a disagreement with the breeder about quality...
b) If the dog is less than "healthy" in any way...
c) The dog doesn't "turn out" how you wanted it to...
d) The breeder changes his/her mind about something not stated specifically in the contract...
e) You guys get into a fight for some reason and while you may no longer be friends/cohorts, there is still a dog in the midst and you still must comply with the contract...
f) Opinions change. You might have signed a contract with statements you no longer agree with, believe are unethical, believe cannot be controlled in your circumstances, etc.

How many people have the time and money to take someone to small claims court?

How many people want to remove the dog from their home whom they put so much effort, sweat, and tears into because of a genetic illness? Esp when it starts getting into something like a mental illness?

The interpersonal stuff with breeding is so complicated and can get ridiculous.

I like what Sukai Kennel said about asking for references, phone numbers. Even having yourself or a representative go to their home and do a home check might be overall more useful than a contract most people might not entirely abide by anyway.

p.s. I have to remind myself this may have been a one-off event and that most breeders truly DO care about their puppy owners.
 Emily.Rose
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Posts : 221

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8/9/2019 3:24:10 AM reply with quote send message to Emily.Rose Object to Post

The whole situation with your mastiff sounds extremely frustrating. More than frustrating.
I've dealt with a contract before and had to go to small claims court over a dog. Basically, what I was told was I was on my own. I would have had to prove that I was, in some way, at a loss for money over the dog and then I would have to track down the guy, find out where he banks and who his employer was. Then, I was informed that it will be an ongoing process because most people who are just as unsavory as he was, will quit their job or change banks and I would just have to restart the process all over again.
The only good thing out of the whole situation was, if he didn't show up, I was told I most likely would win my case by default. However, it would be unlikely that I would see a single penny.
This whole process took almost six months. True enough, I never did see a single penny and the guy is still out there scamming people and abusing dogs.
Your story reminded me of that.

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