Showdog.com Forum · Real Show Dogs
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| Sunnierhawk0 Basic User Posts : 3,000+  |
New AKC rule?? |
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| ScarlettPoodles Basic User Posts : 1,000+ |
this post has been edited 1 time(s) quoteMaybe its the area that your in. The area I'm in Dassin Poodles wins about EVERY thing. His dogs are very nice but they don't deserve to win EVERY class or ALL the points at a show. Plus, with color its a lot harder. Back to the UKC thing. The first UKC show we did was horriable. We had our boy warrior in. The only other standard poodle at the show was a black bitch. The lady who owned the dog said she wasn't entering her since she was in heat. I guess when she saw what we had entered she had to put in her bitch. My dog was being a little bad only because her bitch was in season which would be normal for a male dog. The quality on her bitch was just horriable. She was short legged and had a VERY heavy head. The worst part was, she won BOB and BIG. No less she was a UKC champion! I just don't know about UKC, it is suppose to be friendly. Our neighbors were say the "F" word all the time. I don't call that very friendly. We left after the first show even though it was a 4 day one. I said, "Atleast in AKC you loose to something that looks decent!" Maybe in other areas UKC isn't that bad. I think I just go with the AKC from now on. I didn't like the "No hair spray" thing on the poodles either. The hair spray gives then style and keeps the hair out of their eyes. Warrior had/has 12 inches of hair on the top of his head which looks better sprayed up then laying down in his face. ~Kaitlin |
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| Larkah Basic User Posts : 321 |
quoteSorry to burst your bubble, but you don't always lose to something that looks decent. Even in AKC. Julie |
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| Adalia Basic User Posts : 166 |
quoteBut it's most often the case that dogs in AKC are of better quality, at least in my breed (shelties). I've seen some UKC Grand Ch shelties and very few could even get AKC singles, let alone finish. I've never competed in UKC and never really plan to except for maybe obedience, so I really have no experience in it other than dogs I've seen that have finished in it. But for the most part, I've been very disappointed in the quality of dogs being put up in UKC. One thing I do like about UKC and will commend UKC for doing is allowing color headed white shelties to compete in breed competition. Unfortuantly any dog with more than 50% white is heavily penalized (enough to remove from competition) in AKC. I don't agree with the rule, which the reasoning behind it is that white shelties won't be as effective herders because they'll blend in with the sheep. Yet CHW collies are allowed and there are multiple herding breeds that are all white and have no trouble herding. Sorry for that little rant! |
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| Sunnierhawk0 Basic User Posts : 3,000+ |
Im sure she was talking about in general. Because comapred to the UKC, You DO see a lesser quailty of dogs, or atleast thats my opinion. |
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| CaboodleIWS Basic User Posts : 3,000+ |
I have never, myself, competed in UKC, but I have seen multiple UKC Best in Show Winning Pugs that would have been petted out for AKC... they are AWFUL - most look like (and are) BYB dogs that are leggy, longer muzzled, roach backed... BLEH!! Even the friend of mine that works for UKC bugs me about how crappy UKC Pugs are and that I need to register and show my guys so "something decent can get put up". But our Belgian Sheepdog bitch was taken to some UKC shows by her owner (we handle her in AKC)... I have no idea how many other dogs were entered, but from my understanding, it was not many, nor was it many nice ones. The owner of our bitch was told that she is not "elegant" enough and that she has an "awful" head. If this bitch's head was any more "elegant" it would be snipey and UGLY... se has a GORGEOUS head, though - it's one of her best qualities. Then, the owner was told that the bitch's front is bad because she toes in so much. Well, since we got this bitch over a year ago, we've been working with her to keep her front from toeing OUT, not in. I've mentioned this, as discussion have come up, with a few people, and several "UKC" People have stated to me that "UKC concentrates more on supporting the working standards and dogs"... well, I hate to tell you, but there is NO WAY you can judge WORKING ABILITY in the conformation ring. You can only judge the structure that a dog has to see if it will ALLOW/help/hurt it in working... With that said, our bitch was the first Australian Imported Belgian Sheepdog to EVER place in an AKC Group... and she did it at 10 months old from the puppy classes over a special (en route to her Group 2). She also has her HT, and works sheep AT LEAST once weekly... so you can't say that she can't work either... I've just heard too many "horror stories" with UKC about the poor quality and such. I think it would be a good environment to work puppies and for the Novice exhibitor, but I'll take the AKC politics over UKC's lack of quality any day! |
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| ScarlettPoodles Basic User Posts : 1,000+ |
this post has been edited 1 time(s) quoteWell, the quality I do believe is a lot better in AKC. I haven't lost to something that was as bad or even close to that bitch at that UKC show. Trust me this dog was horriable. Now that I do remember she was grand champion. UKC champions can't compete againist class dogs can they? Some UKC people told us if we said that happened, which in our case it did they could get their points taken away. Just curious. Thanks, ~Kaitlin |
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| Larkah Basic User Posts : 321 |
this post has been edited 1 time(s) I never said that the quality wasn't better in AKC. I do believe it is. What I said, was that you don't always lose to something decent in AKC. Julie |
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| Cypher Kennels Basic User Posts : 304 |
I think possibly part of the problem is that owners of good quality dogs just don't show in UKC. They don't think it's worth their time. So the UKC judges have to do with what they're shown. I just took my AKC shepherd pup to his first UKC show and we cleaned up, defeating the other champion shepherds and placing in group both days, from the puppy class. And he's still coming out of his 'puppy uglies'and thought the whole examination process was a game! There just has to be more people with quality dogs exhibiting, but until that happens, there will continue to be poor quality dogs winning. I did see an AKC/Intl. Champion sheltie place 1st in group, and a rottie that was AKC champion and in the top 20 place 1st in her group. But those kind of good quality dogs don't come along very often in a UKC ring. I also noticed a lot of people saying they just use the UKC as a practice match, and once thier dog is a bit older, stop coming in favor of AKC rings, leaving the dogs unfinishable in AKC rings to compete and win in UKC. It seems their ideas are in the right place, there just needs to be more participation by owners of good dogs. Once that happens, maybe the criteria to be a judge will become more stringent, because you're seeing a lot of good dogs. Who knows? And I'm curious, somebody mentioned the 'new AKC rule' regarding judges. Can someone elaborate on this? I've not heard of it and I'm curious what happened.. |
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| CaboodleIWS Basic User Posts : 3,000+ |
The new AKC rule restricts judges from judging in other "competitive" venues... AKC judges are still allowed to judge in foreign countries, but they are no longer allowed to judge UKC, and I believe ASCA, shows... This is just what I was told, though, and I could have gotten a detail or two wrong. I will double check and see if I can find an article or two on it, though I believe the AKC has something posted on their website about it... |
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| Velvet Rose Basic User Posts : 1,000+ |
Thank you to everyone for posting. I love the comments and reading your opinions. AKC passed a rule saying that thier judges can not cross judge for some venues and events. This varies a bit, but they are no longer allowed to judge UKC confirmation events as part of it, though they can still be apart of a few other events. I agree with most here that the biggest problem is the lack of judge training, though I would never let it stop me lol. Jennifer |
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| Shadow_Moon Basic User Posts : 1,000+ |
I show in UKC and personally I love it. Less politics (in MY area) and really you dont need to impress anyone. My dogs do it for fun because, yes it is easier than AKC. Besides, it is the only place I know of that a American Pit Bull Terrier can come from the weightpull ring and right into the conformation and take a breed win. (I dont have pitties) Basicly I am saying it is holding more of the versatile than AKC can ever do. Now they dont offer herding (which I have aussies) but to see a dog doing what they were bred to do AND able to place higher than ten or so dogs (pitties are big for UKC in my area) then it is beautiful. Some AKC working breeds, I bet, have never done what they were bred to do. This is also why I like ASCA, to a point (had a bad experience in my area). UKC is just more laid back in my area, so I enjoy it more. My dogs also have more fun. AKC you have to do everything to be perfect and UKC it is just more for fun. Conformation isnt pressed as much in UKC as it is in AKC. This is just my opinion and experience. Take care Shadow |
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| Sunnierhawk0 Basic User Posts : 3,000+ |
this post has been edited 1 time(s) Shadow, Dont you think that conformaiton SHOULD be pushed as much?? Because if the dog cant structuley move or be structurley balanced, then how could it possibly be able to do the job it was bred to do ??? edited to add: And its not very fair to say that most AKC working breeds have never done the job they were bred to do. Many a Rottweiler/Doberman ect. has Schtzhund training/titles, probably more than you would think. Also AKC has just released a new title called "The Working Dog title" and its a combination of tracking/Schtuzhund/obedience and I think a little agility. |
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| tessa_s212 Basic User Posts : 500+ |
I love UKC. I love the friendly environment. I'm out there for only one reason, to have fun with my dogs. And UKC allows for this to happen. Nothing more that I can't stand is rude exhibitors and judges. At the UKC Premier we actually had a jrs judge from the previous day come up and talk to me and my friends(who were in the jrs ring the previous day-I wasn't) and he gave us some compliments, a bit of advice, and we just chatted. I have not yet shown to a UKC Judge that I did not like. (And I show in obedience, agility, jrs and just starting in conformation.) |
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| Dark Mirage Basic User Posts : 1,000+ |
this post has been edited 1 time(s) I think UKC could gain more recognition and attract better exhibits if they had a few more events. In my area, there just AREN'T any events, and I'm not going to drive 8+ hours for a UKC show. An acquaintance (who shall remain nameless) is a judge for UKC. She has mentioned more than a few times how much she wishes there were more quality dogs competing in UKC competition. UKC will be hurt by AKC's new rule (which is an idiotic idea in my opinion, but that's beside the point). Judges that are licensed in both venues will almost be 'forced' to drop UKC in favor of AKC. It's hard to maintain a reputation and make a living with the limited showing UKC offers in so many areas of the country. A lack of quality judges will not draw quality dogs. |
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| Sunnierhawk0 Basic User Posts : 3,000+ |
I dont agree with the new AKC rule, but I can see why AKC did it. Im sure they view UKC as thier top compeitor as far as another dog showing venue, and if they make thier judges stay in one place, it will only help the AKC, hender the UKC, or atleast in AKC's way of thinking. |
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| Shadow_Moon Basic User Posts : 1,000+ |
quoteThere is a HUGE difference from being structurally sound and being with a good handler. Also there is a difference between a dog that has "flash" and can work... I would like to see a STRICTLY working bred aussie (I mean from those hanging tree lines and fairoaks and all that jazz) compete and FINISH in AKC in CA. That is my point. It needs to be pressed, but it is more politcal in AKC than UKC. Also I didnt mean just the working group, I meant working breeds! Like Aussies, we have champion dogs that have NEVER seen stock... I know lots of rotties that have never pulled a cart, and bernese mountain dogs as well. I have not seen enough collies out herding or anything of that matter. I dont see all champion newfies doing water rescue. You get the point? I NEVER said all working breeds or even most, I said that most working breeds (the dogs included in the breed) may have never done the job they were meant to. For good reason. When do you see a need for a terrier to hunt rats on a ship? When do you see a need for herding breeds to ALWAYS herd sheep? I am just saying that even though we may not need these things as much, I still think that it should be preserved. I am NOT saying that UKC does this more, but at least I see more pitties, rotties, bernese, etc. coming off of the weightpull track and going right into the conformation ring. I dont see that in AKC. This is JUST my opinion. I like UKC better than AKC because it is more relaxed and I see more versatile dogs coming out of UKC than AKC. However I do not agree with the new rule from AKC, I dont think it is right for them to decide who a person should judge for. Many judges are fighting this new rule, and I fear some may even leave AKC because of it. Again this is all my opinion. Any good show person can tell you: The world of show dogs is based solely on opinion. Take care all! Shadow |
7/31/2006 9:18:58 PM
7/31/2006 9:34:08 PM
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