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Author Topic : Super kennels... just, why?
 Yishar Kennel
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10/10/2019 7:02:32 PM reply with quote send message to Yishar Kennel Object to Post   

this post has been edited 2 time(s)

So, started in a new breed that I just realized is run by a super kennel. They are inflating entries for next month by entering all of their entire kennels in one show so the schedule of points will look like Kerry Blue Terriers next month. I won't be able to compete. I'm not interested in playing with that. Sad, the breed is low SOP and they appeared friendly. Ah well. That account runs until the 21st, $5 wasted getting it started. (Also, it's not this kennel, everyone is swell. Come work with us on Affies!)

I'm just sharing because I'm shocked that this is still a thing after all these years.

editing: sorry, I can't even type correctly, I'm just so annoyed

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Last edited by Yishar Kennel on 10/10/2019 7:02:46 PM

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Last edited by Yishar Kennel on 10/10/2019 7:33:40 PM
Super kennels... just, why?
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 DoogieG6521
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10/11/2019 3:14:17 AM reply with quote send message to DoogieG6521 Object to Post

Exactly. The only reason that I can come up with is to keep others out of the breed. I refuse to leave KBTs, but I only breed. I no longer even attempt to show. Sad.
 
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10/12/2019 9:27:32 PM reply with quote send message to Object to Post edit post

As I understand it. the points are determined by average entries in all the shows in the preceding month. Class dogs and bitches are counted separately.

The way to counteract a single kennel entering a lot of dogs in one show is to enter two or three in all the other shows. I'm not sure of the exact calculation but the average of 20/1 shows = 20. The average of 20 +2 +4 +6 +3 = 35/5 = 7.

If they are entering 20 dogs in every show every day, that will create more of a problem.

I am the only one showing in several breeds. I confess, if there is only one or two owner-judge shows on a day, I will sometimes make large entries because I don't always have time to pick handlers. If there are no owner-judges I will try to enter a few dogs in each usually without handlers - and I don't get upset if someone comes along and enters one dog with a top pick handler and takes all the points.

The intention is not ALWAYS to mess things up for other folks. Perhaps it's a silent invitation for someone else to join in - enter the other shows. Maybe it's frustration with being the only one. If I'm the only one in a breed, who should care how many entries I put in. Just sayin' folks . . .
 Yishar Kennel
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10/12/2019 10:43:03 PM reply with quote send message to Yishar Kennel Object to Post

But they aren't the only one in the breed. I kindly PMed them a hello when I started a few weeks ago as I do when I start new breeds. I am not intent on bulldozing into a breed when the game is quite small. It works well to work together - my current breed here has done that. Of course, one may choose to play differently and they can continue to play alone. That's why I left as I do not play that way.

The breed has small litters. I would privately PM you the disaster they are going to create with the schedule of points. Unfortunately, I don't know who the above commentor is. If I have small litters with no way to earn majors because they are stacking competition with no in for anyone else... you see where this is going.
 
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10/13/2019 9:49:42 AM reply with quote send message to Object to Post edit post

I thought SUPER KENNELS which were considered illegal were when a player has a breed in several kennels and fills all shows usually picking the top handlers therefore monopolizing a breed. And yes there are those out there and I’ve shown against one and managed to compete and win. You just have to have patience and breed good dogs.

Now that said it appears the OP doesn’t want breeders such as I (though don’t think she is speaking about this kennel) loading a single show because then there are no 3 pt majors with just 4 dogs to finish their dogs without effort. Take this kennel for instance I have spent hours and hours meaning months and months into years bringing it up from the source dogs as it was a breed in need when I started. All dogs here trace back to my original source Champion Rizona Eve. There is usually not anyone else showing at all . I usually enter just one show and yes all show prospects go in because I’m usually trying to move a special up the point scale for top dog. In a breed with no real challenges THAT can be the challenge that keeps it going because those early dogs had competition so getting one on the board can be an accomplishment in itself. Yes maybe it does raise point schedule as it has here but there is plenty of opportunity to come into a lower sop breed work hard at developing your line and winning even with a higher point scale as you can beat the long time breeder...yes I have done it in kennels I have come into. It is just not handed to you in that situation.

I’m not trying to be selfish I am just playing the challenges. If you take the challenge to breed better dogs even with a few you will accomplish your goal with time, practice, learning to pick matings and just plain ole luck that the puppy gods give you that special pup and you recognize it ...as all top winning dogs are not the are highest SOP.
 Rizona
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10/13/2019 9:56:58 AM reply with quote send message to Rizona Object to Post

That should say not all top winning dogs are the highest sop.

 Comet Poodles
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10/13/2019 12:44:07 PM reply with quote send message to Comet Poodles Object to Post

Yishar here.

I know you are trying to be kind and offer advice on how to "beat" a super kennel (hint: you can't) but some of what you are saying is a little condescending.

quote
because then there are no 3 pt majors with just 4 dogs to finish their dogs without effort
This is not an issue of effort on my part. I am not talking about a competitive breed like Dobes Standard Poodles. I am talking about a user with a group of kennels attempting to actively shut out competition, just as you succinctly describe in your first paragraph.

quote
In a breed with no real challenges THAT can be the challenge that keeps it going because those early dogs had competition so getting one on the board can be an accomplishment in itself.
I have, more or less, played in Toy Poodles alone since 2017. When the odd user decides to dabble, I adjust my showing to accommodate their class dogs and their breeding program. I do not have to, but I do, my choice. As I mentioned, it helps keep people around. Have my own schedule of points moved up and down over three years? Yes. Have I entered 30+ dogs in one show between several kennels between now and October 30th and handler hogged? No, not really.

I have played on (mostly) and off since June 2006. I know what a super kennel looks like. I do not play with them. My post was more of an anonymous rant at a moment of minor annoyance. I am over it and I will stick to breeds I know.

On a final word, I did not mean to bring up Kerries as a sore spot but if anyone thinks this is normal, well:
www.showdog.com/shows/breed_results.aspx?show=Hunters%20Moon&breed=Kerry%20Blue%20Terrier

You cannot simply "breed better dogs" when you need 7 dogs to earn a single point in one breed, 11 earn 2 points, 14 to earn a single major.
 
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10/13/2019 11:40:04 PM reply with quote send message to Object to Post edit post

condescending? No. Annoyed? Yes.

I have run into a few players of late who have this idea they are supposed to be let play the way they want and win because they play so it is fair for them. This is a strategy game not kindergarten. I watch my grandkids play their video games and they lose more than not but they keep trying until they develop the skills to succeed. That is how we grow in life, take hard challenges and turn them into skills where we can succeed even if the odds of doing so aren’t that great. I’m sorry if that annoyance came out on you but guess we all can rant at times happy :)

As to super kennels I think I totally agreed they are against the rules but they are out there. However you CAN win and finish dogs even against a kennel family that hogs handlers but it is a challenge, lots of patience and hard work and hours hours and more hours. If you don’t believe me feel free to PM me and I will be glad to share that strategy and show those results. But I will agree unless you want a tough challenge it is better to just find another breed.

We all play this game for different reasons and those are what keeps each of us coming back day after day which is a good thing I think happy :)

 SilknT
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10/14/2019 5:45:25 AM reply with quote send message to SilknT Object to Post

Hi
I could be a super kennel - however I try very hard not to be.
I have multiple kennels in this breed - working on colours in 1 kennel and SOP in the other. I am the only player in this breed.
I am aware of the potential of other players joining in and would welcome this. To make my breed approachable I enter dogs from both kennels in the one show, I use handlers only on champions, I have pups for sale and all my studs are cheap and not on approval.
I must admit that on occasion I will enter a number of dogs under an owner-handler judge. However I need to live with the points required for majors, so I tend not to enter too many dogs.
I have in the past loaned good bitches to other players to get them going on the understanding that I can have them back when they have no further use for them.
I'd rather have the competition.
So if I can lure you away, come and play in Silky Terriers - we even get the occasional BIS.
 Comet Poodles
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10/14/2019 10:20:30 AM reply with quote send message to Comet Poodles Object to Post

Rizona - if that is you, I cannot tell - with all due respect, as I said previously, I do not want strategies to "beat" super kennels because I do not play against people who choose to cheat happy :) It's just that simple for me on Showdog. Also, I will reserve "lots of patience and hard work and hours hours and more hours" for my professional work outside of the internet. It's much more satisfying. Showdog is a game where I come to relax, which is why I cancelled the other account. It was bothersome at the moment in a breed with lovely Picardy photos and a lower SOP, that I cannot play as desired. Any insinuation that I am unwilling to do battle with those who play unfairly, I will accept, happily, because it is true.



SilknT -- you are far from any definition of a super kennel and it is a pleasure to compete against your Silky Terriers in the group ring. Thank you for the offer.
 
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10/14/2019 2:01:37 PM reply with quote send message to Object to Post edit post

Yes I must have timed out and didn’t notice it posted me as basic. Hardly trying to hide from my post. As I said we all play for different reasons and as it is supposedly a strategy game ( more so years ago) playing it well can mean using strategy. I’m not into illegal kennels either but if I want to show that breed I’m going to show that breed, it is my right paying and yes it might mean a long time with little result but it CAN be done. I kind of looked at it as if I was good enough they would not be able to win even though they had a family kennel group competing and had the top handlers in every show.. as I said it is a challenge. However your original post was more pointing at kennels like SilknT and I have one similar, a main show kennel and one for colors that aren’t up to show quality. There is plenty of room in the breed but a person won’t be handed their majors. I did have someone awhile back who asked me NOT to show against them and I agreed and didn’t and they had the choice of shows usually as I’m not always lining them up ahead. Maybe that was you? If so I’m sorry if I offended you. I know in my main breed I’m often campaigning for high points so those specials require a fair number to beat meaning without breeders showing I have to carry a large show string. I also put up many specialties. But class dogs aren’t hogging ALL the handlers and specialties have majors with owner handlers so a breeder who is competitive has a good chance of winning against my kennel happy :) Even my low sop color dogs have surprised me when I throw them in and beat the showdogs happy :)

We all have days we want to rant and glad we can do so. And still try to respect each other’s right to play..
 Intrinsicc
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10/14/2019 2:04:50 PM reply with quote send message to Intrinsicc Object to Post

Timed out again in Rizona . I’m not ashamed of any of my kennels happy :)
 Comet Poodles
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10/14/2019 3:37:53 PM reply with quote send message to Comet Poodles Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

quote
I did have someone awhile back who asked me NOT to show against them and I agreed and didn’t and they had the choice of shows usually as I’m not always lining them up ahead. Maybe that was you? If so I’m sorry if I offended you.
Excuse me? Now I have to laugh.

I do not police how others show and in 14 years, I cannot recall doing so. That is why I backed out of competing against a super kennel, without so much as calling out breeds or kennels. However, I will post about my concerns that are prohibiting others from playing in a, thankfully, very small number of breeds.

quote
However your original post was more pointing at kennels like SilknT and I have one similar, a main show kennel and one for colors that aren’t up to show quality.
Where did I say that? Did I mention how many kennels this user has or a specific breed? By that defintion, I am a super kennel as well as I had a brief dabble in colors in my breed:
www.showdog.com/general/user_information.aspx?user=Comet+Colors

Your posts are coming across as awfully defensive. This post is not about you, Intrinsicc, or any of your kennels, as far as I can tell. Now you are speaking of handing people majors. I have had great success on this website in many breeds, none of which came from asking people to stop showing their dogs happy :)

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Last edited by Comet Poodles on 10/14/2019 3:55:18 PM
 SilknT
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10/15/2019 6:26:07 AM reply with quote send message to SilknT Object to Post

Comet - thanks for vote of confidence re not being a super kennel.
I just get so excited by the possibilities of a breed - look, the forequarter needs work - oh, there are no greys around - that I end up with multiple kennels, all working on something.
I've been quite twitchy about abusing the game and the other players.
 Jasper Kennel
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10/15/2019 9:17:33 AM reply with quote send message to Jasper Kennel Object to Post

I have to show a lot of dogs because nobody else will show the breed I have. I've been actively trying to get people to show bloodhounds but nobody will. If you don't have enough entries, they won't get points. I play this game to show so I want my dogs to get Grand Champion merits. I went back to being a basic player for a while because it was boring not having anyone to compete against and nobody to sell pups to. I was convinced to come back with promises that people would use my genetics and produce some show dogs for actual competition only 1 person did and they stopped showing after about 2 weeks. It's boring. My main goal in this game now is to get BOS, which will hopefully happen one of these days.

I guess I could change breeds but I have so much time and money put into bloodhounds that I hate to change at this point.
 Whiskey Mac
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10/15/2019 1:46:53 PM reply with quote send message to Whiskey Mac Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

I think it can be difficult when you're either completely alone in showing a breed, or the other kennels show very intermittently with only one or two dogs. As of right now, I'm pretty much the only one whose dogs are showing in Pharaoh Hounds. Yeah, there's one or two other kennels who occasionally enter their dogs, but even then - those dogs are mostly still using my prefix and are bred by me, since few others are actively breeding and even fewer are selling their pups.

If someone were to message me about getting into the breed, I'd do my best to re-enter my dogs in a more spread-out fashion to make it easier on the newer person. With so few people playing the game nowadays, though, it can be too easy to become a super kennel and intimidate people enough that they don't join your breeds without meaning to do so.

I do my best to seem welcoming and helpful on the forums to get people to join Pharaoh Hounds, but sometimes it's just difficult.

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Last edited by Whiskey Mac on 10/15/2019 1:47:31 PM
 
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10/16/2019 3:46:56 AM reply with quote send message to Object to Post edit post

I don’t have issue with a lone breeder entering enough dogs to make points for themselves. I do have an issue with 5 kennels and a basic belonging to one player stacking shows with so many dogs that the point schedule is sky high. Seven dogs for one point, or has even been as high as 14 for one point. Not a major, just one point. I don’t even have enough showable dogs to make a point, let alone a major. There are no other players in the breed, as they have all seen the light and gone on to other breeds. A few months ago, I decided to become a closed kennel. I no longer have public studs in that breed or use outside studs. I am concentrating on breeding better dogs, but I don’t show them. There are no other players in the breed, just me and the super kennel. I suppose eventually I will breed myself into a high COI, and will need to rethink staying in a breed that I love.
 SatinSilk
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10/18/2019 3:21:23 AM reply with quote send message to SatinSilk Object to Post

Ah Whiskey - forums ... fora to be precise.

I just don't have the time. It's all I can do to condition, show, sell and breed (and everything except condition sometimes goes by the board). If they want my breed great! Adding a presence on forums is for me a bridge too far.

 Whiskey Mac
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10/18/2019 3:47:22 AM reply with quote send message to Whiskey Mac Object to Post

quote
posted by SatinSilk
Ah Whiskey - forums ... fora to be precise.

I just don't have the time. It's all I can do to condition, show, sell and breed (and everything except condition sometimes goes by the board). If they want my breed great! Adding a presence on forums is for me a bridge too far.


The forums are useful. It’s a great way to connect with other players, and there’s nothing wrong with being welcoming and friendly. I would also rather sell dogs to other kennels for $1 than FH them when they’re perfectly finishable.
 SatinSilk
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10/18/2019 4:02:22 AM reply with quote send message to SatinSilk Object to Post

Sigh - adding to list
 Whiskey Mac
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10/18/2019 4:20:44 AM reply with quote send message to Whiskey Mac Object to Post

quote
posted by SatinSilk
Sigh - adding to list
I’m not sure what this even means.

I apologize for somehow upsetting you. I’ll refrain from posting in the forums from now on to prevent further upset, I guess.

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