.com Forum · Real Show Dogs

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posted by southern_acres
I am against this bill all the way .I think instead of trying to pass bills against breeding they should put the money into low cost spay neuter and education . I am all for the spay /neutering of pets and I do hate that animals are put down .I just don't think this is the answer . I am afraid it might increase abandoned pets in the short run at least .

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In the past statistics it has increased the amount of abandoned pets. What's sad is all the celebrities who support this. These people can't tell the difference between a tongue depressor and a rectal therometer so they'll vote for whatever they're told to or get paid to.

I think dogs and cats should be spayed and neutered, but not at 4 months! When we got my mix Dakota, she was already about a year, and we got her spayed because we had a poodle who was not neutered, and we didn't want Dakota to get out and get pregnant. Owners should not be forced to spay/neuter their pets, but they should to help the homeless animals.

I am against this bill and its supporters so much.

Bri
WhS

I too am totally against this bill, however I do want to point out that the list of Vets is actually very tiny. I bet we have that many Vets offices within a 20 mile radius here in Southern Calif. Remember, we have very dense populations.
Pleased to see none of the Vets I know were on the list. They are also not looking at the big picture. Sure, they get tons of spays/neuters at first, but then within a few short years there wil be no more pets to treat.

Steph

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posted by LoupGarou
Just a reminder about this bill. It currently has provisions for excluding show dogs, registered performance dogs, service dogs, police dogs, and military dogs from its measures. However, these provisions cease in 2009. Even now, this bill makes it difficult, if not impossible, for dog show exhibitors to comply with its measures.

This bill is intended to be a "zero growth" law. It goes well beyond that, in fact, in that after 2009 there will not be any dogs in CA that can legally be bred. All well-bred animals will be wiped out in a matter of years if there is compliance with this bill; the only breeding dogs will be the feral canines on the street--you know, the ones that justify shelters' existence.

There is nothing good about this bill. It has been called the "pet annihilation bill," the "pet eradication bill," or the "pet extinction bill" for a good reason.

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I fully agree with you. I have three labs that are not pure bred, and they are all fixed. One of them I picked up from the pound, and I had absolutely no regrets for getting them all fixed. I believe that the only people not required to fix their pets are the ones who are "EXPERIENCED" breeders or who own show dogs. Otherwise, there is no reason to not get your pet fix. You are not taking anything away from them, because you can ensure that no unwanted puppies are made.

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posted by UpTownBlue
I am completely against the AB1634, but I do not think these vets are trying to line their pocketbooks.

This bill is supposed to cut down the population, which means fewer dogs to go to the vet? Wouldn’t this mean less money for vets in the long run? I admit I may be wrong, so please don’t jump on me.

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No jumping on you - but no. There's indications that early s/n leads to lifetime health issues - which means the vets get the early s/n $ and create a pet that may have a lifetime of vet issues.

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posted by ScarecrowKennels
No jumping on you - but no. There's indications that early s/n leads to lifetime health issues - which means the vets get the early s/n $ and create a pet that may have a lifetime of vet issues.

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Why do people assume that vets are out just to make money. I have NEVER known a vet that would sacrifice the life of an animal for money, although I have heard of one that just did it for money. 4 or 5 months is not really considered early S/N. When people talk about early S/N, they are talking about 2 months or less. Please, vets are not lawyers (no offense intended to any lawyers out there).

KNU

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posted by Heartland KNU Kennels
Why do people assume that vets are out just to make money. I have NEVER known a vet that would sacrifice the life of an animal for money, although I have heard of one that just did it for money. 4 or 5 months is not really considered early S/N. When people talk about early S/N, they are talking about 2 months or less. Please, vets are not lawyers (no offense intended to any lawyers out there).

KNU

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Because with all due respect many are; and I have known several who would absolutely sacrifice the animal for money. Without a blank check or a credit card they wouldn't let a sick or injured dog in. I had it happen to me once in between pay periods.

4-5 months is early compared to a year that many experts advise and some 14 months...for the health of the dog.

b]

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Why do people assume that vets are out just to make money. I have NEVER known a vet that would sacrifice the life of an animal for money, although I have heard of one that just did it for money. 4 or 5 months is not really considered early S/N. When people talk about early S/N, they are talking about 2 months or less. Please, vets are not lawyers (no offense intended to any lawyers out there).

KNU

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Sad to say, I know several. There are two vets in my small town alone who will refuse to treat an animal, even in an emergency, if the owner does not have a credit card or cash with them. I personally witnessed one dog (not mine) who had been hit by a car refused treatment when the owner, it his rush to get the dog to a vet, didn't bring his wallet. This same vet advocated vaccinations every two weeks for puppies from 5 weeks to 18 weeks. She refuses to allow clients to skip unrequired vaccinations if they want to, requiring everything from lyme vaccination to BOTH types of kennel cough vaccine (intranasal and injectible) for boarding.

The other veterinarian has a facility straight out of the 1800's. Quite literally, about all he has in the way of medical equipment is a stethoscope, an small X-ray machine, and a drawer full of antibiotics. However, he still admits dogs with medical conditions far beyond his ability to treat. He is currently being sued after a great dane pup was admitted as an emergency for bloat. He put the puppy into a kennel and left it for the night with zero treatment, then called the owner in the morning saying the dog had died during surgery. (his tech actually informed the owner what had really happened to their puppy).

There are MANY vets out there who are in it for the money and not for the animals, or who will try to save some animals over others-- a vet I used to work for was one of these-- she'd work a lot harder to save a spayed or neutered dog than an intact male, who she said were all 'gross, disgusting creatures.' Needless to say, I didn't work for her very long. Those of you who are lucky enough to find excellent veterinarians should count yourselves blessed. I currently do my vetwork at a clinic almost three hours away from me since I can't find the type of person and expertise I want any closer than that.

JME,
DM

The part about being able to breed that one litter. It is encouraging breeding pets that are still puppies themselves. According to this bill, the male and female have to have produced a litter within a year of getting that permit. Since all dogs have to be spayed or neutered by 6 months, that means breeding by 16 months of age. Pregnancy lasts about 7 weeks so by 16 months to make it within 18 months of age.
Since no one really knows when a female will come into season, it is "safest" to then breed on the first heat since that second heat might be after 16 months of age.
I am completely appalled that the government is encouraging breeding on the first heat. Most females are too mentally immature to properly take care of a litter then. It most certainly is too early to do proper health checks like certifying the hips and elbows of the larger breeds and the knees of the smaller breeds by OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals, www.offa.org). It is too early to check for many eye diseases (CERF-www.vmdb.org/cerf.html).
This section is only encouraging the worst breeding practices and it will have the government stamp of approval to do so. This is just the sickest thing that I have ever heard of.
If the real point of this bill is to reduce shelter populations, this isn't the way to do it. I thought the rallying cry to do mandatory spay and neuter was because of all of the people that were "breeding just one litter" were causing the animal crisis to start with.

we have veterinary and veterinary clinics that are answerable for care for your pet in the best medical situations. Commonly normal persons go to a veterinary clinic to vaccinate their pets, check pathologist, regular reviews, infections and ailments that fall within the collective clinical cases.

As has been stated, education is far more effective!

Educate pet owners first about why they should not allow their animals to roam around unsupervised and not under the control of a competent person. Their sexual status is immaterial.

Educate people about why they should not purposely allow their pets to reproduce.

Educate people about why they should not buy pets from unethical and/or uninformed would-be breeders.

Apart from anything else, 4 months is considered too soon by many and likely varies by breed as some are slower maturing than others.

I believe the current process is shown to be effective.

If it has to be forced on some folks, let it be forced on those whose animals repeatedly are found running at large.