Showdog.com Forum · Alpha Dog Forum

Hi all!

I'm making this to sort of document my own source project process/progress/goals, and to see what other people have found to work for them over the years.

My version of source breeding:
I have bred only from my source dogs, and to another kennel's source project dogs at the same generation level as mine. I'm not worried too much about Gen 1 x Gen 1, Gen 2 x Gen 2, and will occasionally breed Gen 4 x Gen 6 (if the Gen 4 dog has better stats).

* I also show my dogs against each other, mostly for something to do in between litters/while waiting for dogs to mature. I've found that some of the most-winning dogs aren't the best puppy producers, and that some middle-of-the road stats dogs produce GREAT puppies. When I first started, there was only one other kennel in my breed showing & breeding.

Old vs New SOP:
For now I'm focusing on Old SOPs, but I take note of dogs whose new SOP stats crack out of 0/20.

Tactics through the generations:

Gen 0: 5 boys and 7 girls -- My goal was to match the best with the best, and also to "match" high stats to low stats on traits, attempting to get numbers somewhere in the middle. I also wanted to create a big gene pool from which successive generations would come, without making the COI jump up too quickly. (One con to this is that without realizing, I may have bred out some variety in traits, so that I ended up with lots of dogs in successive generations that are all on the low end of most/all traits, but traits on the high end are rare).

Gens 1, 2, 3: More high/low trait matching, and some nice lines started to distinguish themselves from lines that have consistently lower SOP. I still keep the lower SOP dogs for breeding though, because they tend to have some of the more unique stat values (i.e., nearly all of my dogs have temperament values less than 10, but some of my crappiest dogs have high temperament, which I value for the sake of raising that trait toward 10). Also, I'm trying to eliminate bad traits which I consider "stuck" -- meaning all of the 0 and 20 trait values in the old SOP box.

Gens 4-8: This is where I am currently. Dogs with no "stuck" traits in their Old SOP box are beginning to emerge, which are typically my best dogs. I'm now beginning to prioritize dogs with 1) no "stuck" traits and when possible, no red traits, 2) traits within 5pts of the ideal score of 10, so that a dog with 5 traits within 5pts of 10 is better for breeding than a dog with only 2 traits within 5pts of 10.

* Some interesting things I've noticed are that the two most "important" traits in my breed (head & size) are the ones most likely to be blue/close to 10. Also, for whatever reason my lines very often have "stuck"/red coats and feet (the "least important" traits in the breed standard).

My Main Goal:
I'm just trying to see how quickly I can raise the SOP of my lines. When I started this project last May, there was only one other show-active kennel in the breed, who was also working on a source project but was 10-15 generations ahead of me. At the time, I thought it would be fun to try and "catch-up." Now, that person has moved on from my breed, and some other kennels have used zombie studs with 99+ Old SOPs to begin breeding & showing later generation/higher stats dogs. So, while I originally had "show-quality" or near-show-quality dogs, I'm now at the bottom of the barrel lol. Ceist la vie!

I've got a whole spreadsheet system for breeding pairs, tracking stats, and tracking show results lol -- I'm curious to hear about other peoples' projects/attempts/what has worked and not worked. I know some of y'all have been at this for DECADES!

I have been source breeding for 20 years.
Unlike you, I breed the same generations together.
Maybe this is the reason why my dogs aren’t show quality, yet.
I don’t session any of them.

Good for you for making this a detailed project.
Seriously. It is not for the faint of heart, that’s for sure.

Carol

quote

---

posted by Caulfeilds Kennels
I have been source breeding for 20 years.
Unlike you, I breed the same generations together.

---

I've read through a lot of the forum posts and have seen you talk about how long you've worked on your source dogs! I'm not sure I have the same level of dedication that takes!

I won't breed to more than 2 generations apart, but I do think some generational mixing around has helped (in some regards). Even though these are simulated dogs, I justify it in terms of real-life breeding programs (sometimes your older boy and younger girl just *are* the best pair to match)!

There are some litters I get really excited about, and some I keep puppies from just for the sake of keeping the gene pool big enough.

You are definitely an inspiration to me, and someone whose strategy I keep in mind!

My ‘strategy’ is either fool hardy or pure.

I know in RL, breedings don’t happen the way I’m doing it in this kennel.
I will think about what you are doing and maybe one day might change things up a bit.

I’m just against breeding one of my source dogs to a show champion. To me, that’s not source breeding.

Carol