Showdog.com Forum · Real Show Dogs

Hi guys, I'm hoping you can give me some advice on sports to enjoy with my 5 1/2 year old Dachshund. She earned her CGC a few weeks ago and it was so much fun I really want to continue working with her. Right now, she has a pretty reliable sit/down/stay depending on distractions and how enticing the treats are I'm offering. I'm looking at competing in the novice level in rally or traditional obedience (and earthdog as well when the local group starts back up after the holidays). I've been doing some research online about the difference between the two, but I'm still not 100% sure which would be more appropriate for us. She's very food-motivated and I like the idea that with rally you can keep up communication with the dog instead of just single commands. Are you allowed to treat during both types of obedience? What made you choose one over the other?

Also, she is very finicky about surfaces. She has very thin hair so it's not comfortable for her to down on concrete/hard flooring, but she will do it just fine on a rug/in dry grass. I've heard of a similar aversion to hard surfaces with greyhounds. Is it appropriate in competitive obedience to carry a mat for her for groundwork, or would that not be acceptable?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer! I'm adding a couple of pics of Abbee just for fun

Laura

Neither obedience nor rally allow treating in the ring. Rally does allow for multiple commands, communication, and praise. You'll need to work the dog on multiple surfaces, as you will not be allowed to bring a mat or anything for her to lay on in either sport.

Personally, I find Rally to be more fun because of the ability to communicate with your dog. However, the courses sometimes get confusing (my 1st NQ was because I got lost on a course and missed a sign... blew my boy's perfect score! Grrr). Obedience has pretty consistent patterns and you're always doing the same few exercises, which makes preparation/training a bit easier, but you also have to be much more precise in positioning and such, and cannot really communicate with your dog once an exercise has begun.

I generally tell people to start with Rally, as you're given more leeway to make mistakes and to work through problems. Plus, novice is entirely on leash, so no worrying about your dog blowing a stay or recall exercise (or heeling exercise, for that matter) and taking off. It also has only one dog at a time, where as with obedience, you generally have multiple entries doing their sits and downs together, side by side.

You can also look into Beginner Novice, which is sort of a transition class from Rally into regular Obedience, though I personally believe the sit-stay is much harder in beginner novice than regular obedience...

a lot depends on the venue. I do CARO Rally and you CAN treat in the ring in Novice(only at the end of stationary exersizes, no luring and your dog cannot break postion for the treat.) courses can be confusing in Rally but you get lots of time to walk the course and ask questions, lots of people seem to get lost of coarses with a lot of turns..but the signs have pictures on them pointing in the correct directions so if you can read an arrow it shouldnt be that hard, and this is coming from a really directionaly challanged person lol. I chose Rally over traditional because..well, I didnt get to choose, I have a mix breed and I live in Canada, CARO Rally was my ONLY option.

No treats and no mats for either (but depending on the venue they may have mats out anyway).

I did Rally because you can maintain communication with your dog and because it is a single fluid course rather than several discrete exercises. My dog stresses if she doesn't get feedback from me and I stress if I have to wait for things.

I came at it from an agility background so I found the courses extremely straight forward and at the trial I went to nobody got lost. Some of the signs themselves aren't completely intuitive but you get a lot more leeway than in Obedience (eg. crooked sits are usually ok, and leading/lagging a bit is ok).

Rally is mostly based on loose heeling with other things stuck in, where as Obedience exercises are more different from each other.

grif,

Working with a less "classic" breed than rigid Obedience types, I highly recommend AKC Rally! It's lots of fun navigating the courses while still having connection with your dog through praise and verbal encouragement. Especially with our short legged, long backed breeds who don't move at the conventional "brisk pace" expected by Obedience judges My dogs enjoy it thoroughly while every try at conventional obedience has caused her to shut down and get bored. No "sit dammit!" or "heal or else" in Rally ... lots of variety and little challenges to keep them engaged through the trial. Very fun and lots of tests to build upon. A

Both myself and my dogs enjoy rally more than obedience. In Rally, you can talk to and encourage your dog. You can use your hands to guide or signal them along with verbal commands. Rally Novice is all ON LEASH!!!

Thank you guys so much--this has been very helpful! I think AKC rally is going to be the right choice for us. Does anyone have any tips/tricks for getting her more comfortable performing on different surfaces?

There's a local club that will be starting new classes in January. The trainer I spoke to about Abbee said to be sure we find a positive-reinforcement class (Abbee's a "soft" dog and has some history of anxiety). What are some things to look for to determine if we've found a good training club?

Thanks!

Laura

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posted by staff
What are some things to look for to determine if we've found a good training club?

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A variety of dog in their advanced classes not just herding/sporting dogs.
Flexibility and knowledge of multiple techniques rather than a one-method-fits-all mentality.
Trainers are interested in listening to students and encourage discussion among students.

For different surfaces have you thought about using the Premack Principle? Basically going onto the nice surface (mat) is used as part of the reward for tolerating the disliked surface (concrete).

grif,

I have a rally novice title on my Aussie. It's a lot of fun and a great beginning to get into more serious obedience (CDX and so on...). Up here in Ohio most obedience and rally trials are in a building on concrete, so I don't know which state you're in but that's something to keep in mind. I liked rally and have been considering trying to get an advanced title on my boy after he retires from the conformation ring. It's fun!

Oh and as far as a training club goes, look at what accomplishments the trainers have done with their own dogs and how many different breeds they have worked with. That will tell you A LOT!

I'm in St. Louis, MO if that helps! I haven't heard of the Premack Principle, but will Google it.

I'm doing both formal & rally obedience at the same time....Rally is a lot more laid back and I like it that I can talk to my dog but I also like at least the lower levels of obedience. Just did my first Beginner Novice trial and I really liked it. I'd say train for Rally and consider trying Beginner Novice to see if you like formal obedience.

The rally program was designed to bridge the gap between the cgc and traditional obedience. So I would start with that for sure. As far as a good training club, the best thing I've learned to look for is variety in levels of people in the club. If it is all novice handlers where did the advanced ones go and why? If it is all advanced why aren't there any novice, does this trainer not teach the lower levels well? Will everythingg be geared toward the advanced handlers? Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

I love Rally, and there ARE venues where you can treat the dog in the ring. Rally was invented by Bud Houston as it's own sport drawing off obedience doodling exercises and agility; it is the perfect combination of fun and communication with your dog.
AKC is one of the last registering bodies to get into rally actually. Their entries are struggling while other venues are taking off. APDT's rally operations was just bought out by USDAA and will incorporate national finals now. (Cynosport).

Try Pam Dennison's book "Click your way to Rally" for a great foundation until you can find a class.

I checked with a friend who is an AKC Superintendent about requirements for ring matting, and he informed me that AKC only requires that "footing be suitable for jumps".

I would ask around before entering trials (once you reach that point) to see which clubs have matting and, if they don't, what type of flooring it is. There are several shows in my area that do not mat the floors, as they are in gymnasiums or field houses with track flooring (which is actually somewhat cushioned). Also, if you can find multiple clubs to train with, see if they offer a variety of flooring. I currently train in three different locations (none with kennel clubs, but all with trainers who compete in AKC events) with three different types of flooring.

Hi,
I also used to live in the St. Louis area. I am still part of an All Breed Kennel Club there which provides rally classes. The instructors were fun and easy to work with. I learned a lot while taking these classes. The classes are "generally" smaller so you end up with more individual attention, which is great when you are first learning!

www.jckc.org

-Lexie