.com Forum · Real Show Dogs

Hello all!
I attended a specialty this weekend for saint bernards.
There some gorgeous dogs and I think I met the breeder of my next saint as well.
We arrived early enough to see some of the dogs being groomed, and I noticed one groomer/owner using corn starch or something similar on a dogs legs to make them whiter. Someone later commented that this was not permissable for saints. Does anyone know if this is true? Also why would a groomer uses mascara on a dog? I noticed it in one groomer's toolbox and was curious as to it's purpose.

Thanks!
~Anna

The person you talked to is right, it is illegal to "chalk" or color your dogs (which is usually done with talcom powder or crushed chalk) because it is taking away from what the dog originally was. A lot of handlers/breeders do this to make their dog look sharper color-wise. As for the mascara, it is to "blacken" a dog where it might be whitening from oldness or to touch up/sharpen its color, even on their noses, as well as permanent markers, this is illegal, so when you get your Saint, DON'T DO IT!

Hope this helped!!
:Lydia

That does help! Thanks.
Now I'm just curious as to why the judge did not say anything when I'm sure they saw it. It was pretty obvious because the grooming area was right next to the ring. Is it the sort a thing that is looked over and ignored? What are teh penalties for doing it?

While it may be "illegal", I don't think there's hardly a soul out there who does not do it! Dying a dog is a no-no also, but there are many top specials out there who are dyed

I chalk my Whippet special before he goes in the ring, but not my class dogs. Judges don't say anything because it's a common practice, nobody hides what they're doing, and as long as it's not obvious, you should be okay But to not do it can sometimes hurt your chances at winning, especially when you get a dog against you that is immaculately groomed!

Maybe you can get some grooming advice from some of the top breeders in your area, but I think it would not be wise just to not do it

Chalking itself is not illegal, as long as all traces of the powder are removed from the coat before going into the ring. However, altering the color with markers and permanent color (like hair dye) is illegal. If the judge didn't put up the exhibit, you can bet that there was something wrong with the grooming practice, if the person doing the grooming was a handler.

I know someone who shows a black afghan that uses mascare (sp?) to cover up the white tip at the end of her tail....tho on that can't see how it is a big deal since most of the black afghans have a white tip....actually even my brindle has a white tipped tail......

Also a lot of people that have white or cream dogs will put a type of product on them to make their noses black....tho a light colored afghan can have a lighter nose.....in the show ring it isn't something that they want.

There's a lot of interesting things that people do to try and make their dogs look better, it's kind of interesting ^.^

Fairy is right, it is just overlooked but, if you need to chalk your dog, your *probably* missing a vital part in your breediing program. I mean, wouldn't you be concerned if you can't breed a dog that doesn't even have the proper coat? I own Irish Setters and help an Irish Setter breeder (the Kubacz') and I know we would all be concerned if we had to dye a dog (which we would NEVER EVER do) just to make it the proper color. Templar, I'd just advise you not to do it, it's a lot easier than worrying about an AKC rep or judge seeing you do it and possibly get in trouble for it.

Lydia

P.S. I am in NO way bashing ANYONE, I am just stating my opinions on the matter, so PLEASE, don't blow my comment out of proportion.

Thanks for the info guys!
I'm a few yrs away from actually owning a show quality saint bernard, I've just been researching lines so I can establish a relationship with a breeder. Out of the 25 dogs there, I think I only saw 2 or 3 being chalked. I was just curious if it was something allowed. For the 2-3 dogs i saw them use the powder on the parts of the legs that usually slobber lands on when a dog rests it's head. I'm not sure if that makes any difference. The breeder that caught my eye, Van Rijn Kennels, did not use chalk on her dogs but hers were beautifully groomed. In fact one of her dogs was actually Winner's Dog at the national specialty and she was awarded breeder of the year. I'm just hoping she'll be willing to take me on as a student of sorts so that I can keep learning about this amazing breed and crazy show world!

Thanks Again guys!
~Anna

Its amazing what people/hanlders will do to cover up just about anything on thier dog.

There are so many tricks of the trade you learn never to trust what you see.


~Ryan~

The act of chalking is not illegal, actually leaving chalk in the dog's fur is. I actually talked to a judge a while back and we had an interesting conversation about this whole topic. Its when a dog shakes and you see a cloud of chalk that it becomes illegal.

Since I do not have the time to read allll these posts, I'll just say this and answer your question from the beginning. If it was already said, please ignore this post:

Chalking is illegal when going to a show that s/he's competing in, UNLESS you wash it off, and give him/her a bath to rid of the chalk. It simply makes the coat whiter, and believe me, the judges will know if your dog ( illegaly ) has chalking on when s/he's in the ring. If you don't remember to wash it off, then you'll most likely get disqualified, unless the judge doesn't notice. ( which if they don't notice the dog gleaming white out of all of the other dogs then they should go home and take a nap! LOL! )

-Maddie

We chalk the stained parts of the dog & brush it out. It makes their white parts whiter for the ring

quote

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Posted by Madditude Kennels
If you don't remember to wash it off, then you'll most likely get disqualified, unless the judge doesn't notice. ( which if they don't notice the dog gleaming white out of all of the other dogs then they should go home and take a nap! LOL! )

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That was good for a laugh... ROFLOLOLOLOL!!!

*sorry* heheh...

-Jaden

If anyone watched that show, Showdog Moms & Dads, you will remmeber in one episode, the Judge who he and his wife show whippets, it showed him chalking up a white whippet.

So its not illegal, unless I suppose you go into the ring with it all chalked up. As others have said.

We chalk Shelties to help the hair to stand up. There are those who do it excessively and/or dont brush it out but you wouldnt get far in shelties if you didnt do it unfortunetly. As for the eye liner, mascara ect I know of a lot of uses for them nd none of them are legal LOL

LOL.

we show Great Pyrenees; there is not one person out there that I know of that shows a white dogs that doesn't chalk their dog. We chalk the feet and front of the legs (and only up to the hock point on the rear legs) to help the fur to stand out. We occasionally chalk the face, but not every time. The chalking in our breed really has nothing to do with 'breeding', per se, nor does it have anything to do with the correct coat.
There isn't a judge out there that doesn't know what we are all doing....they just tell us in funny ways that they had better not find chalk on their suit. Even Pyr breeder judges, chalk.

I've always chalked my English Springer Spaniels, and my Irish Setter. I chalk my ESS's legs, to make them whiter, and my IS's muzzle because he's graying. And dying liver and white springers is VERY common in the ESS community, because they fade a lot on their ears. I even got to witness and learn how to die a ESS by watching one of the top ESS specials dyed at the nationals.

I don't think there's anything wrong with chalk, mascara, and any other enhancers. These kinds of things reminds me of makeup.

Dem

I did too Dem. I watched James get dyed. Kellie said his ears get really gray when she clippers them. I always chalk Hope. It makes her look more finished and gets her coat nice and white.

To say that a breeding program is "missing something" because they chalk/dye their dogs is very far fetched to say the least. Chalk may be used for numerous reasons (whitening and thickening come to mind) Colored chalk is also used mainly on faces to create a "smoother" look, as it evens out variations in coloring. The secret to a good groomer, is one who can do all this and make it un noticeable.

Tawny @ Tradewind (who would rather breed for proper structure than bright colors)

I was at a local show a few years back and the Terrier Judge DQed a dog for chalk. You should have seen the mad dash from the handlers to try and get the chalk out of their dogs. Was too funny.

Steph