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Author Topic : Black & Tan in Brussels Griffon
 Sweet Frog Kennel
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5/10/2020 6:01:44 PM reply with quote send message to Sweet Frog Kennel Object to Post   

I read the great article in the Brussels Griffon forum but I am having some difficulty understanding. Is Black and Tan recessive? Are the puppies from a Black and Tan parent that are not blk/tan carriers for the color?
 Spot and Smudge
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5/11/2020 3:53:12 AM reply with quote send message to Spot and Smudge Object to Post

Black and tan is dominant over black and codominant with red.
 Spot and Smudge
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5/11/2020 3:55:29 AM reply with quote send message to Spot and Smudge Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

If a puppy that is not black and tan is born to two parents that are black and tan, it would be black and would not carry a black and tan gene.

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Last edited by Spot and Smudge on 5/11/2020 12:39:33 PM
 Spot and Smudge
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5/11/2020 3:58:19 AM reply with quote send message to Spot and Smudge Object to Post

AA- Black
AtA or AtAt- Black and tan
AyAy- Red
AyA or AyAt- Belge
 Silver Ring Kennel
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5/11/2020 7:59:06 AM reply with quote send message to Silver Ring Kennel Object to Post

quote
posted by Spot and Smudge
If a puppy is born to two parents that are black and tan, it would be black and would not carry a black and tan gene.
This makes no sense to me. So breeding two blk/tan dogs does not make blk/tan pups?
 Silver Ring Kennel
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5/11/2020 7:59:45 AM reply with quote send message to Silver Ring Kennel Object to Post

How does belge effect it?
 Silver Ring Kennel
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5/11/2020 8:01:12 AM reply with quote send message to Silver Ring Kennel Object to Post

If it is a dominate gene then there are no blk/tan carriers. Is that what you meant?
 Spot and Smudge
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5/11/2020 12:41:10 PM reply with quote send message to Spot and Smudge Object to Post

quote
posted by Silver Ring Kennel
quote
posted by Spot and Smudge
If a puppy is born to two parents that are black and tan, it would be black and would not carry a black and tan gene.
This makes no sense to me. So breeding two blk/tan dogs does not make blk/tan pups?

I meant a puppy that is not black and tan, like she was asking about.
 Spot and Smudge
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5/11/2020 12:43:25 PM reply with quote send message to Spot and Smudge Object to Post

quote
posted by Silver Ring Kennel
If it is a dominate gene then there are no blk/tan carriers. Is that what you meant?
No, it can be carried by belge, sort of. It's dominant over black. If you have one black qene and one black and tan gene, the dog is going to be black and tan.
 Spot and Smudge
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5/11/2020 12:44:56 PM reply with quote send message to Spot and Smudge Object to Post

quote
posted by Silver Ring Kennel
How does belge affect it?
Does belge affect what? To get belge you have one red gene with either a black and tan gene or a black gene.
 Silver Ring Kennel
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5/11/2020 3:55:10 PM reply with quote send message to Silver Ring Kennel Object to Post

I'm sorry, I own both kennels lol. I am trying to bring more numbers and quality to blk/tan Brussels in Sweet Frog along with raising and showing English Setters. I was asking how blk/tan interacts with belge or is effected by it with that one question.
 Spot and Smudge
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5/11/2020 4:08:43 PM reply with quote send message to Spot and Smudge Object to Post

Belge isn't caused by its own gene. Belge is caused by combining the red gene with black and tan gene or a black gene.
 gaylanstudio
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5/13/2020 11:04:03 PM reply with quote send message to gaylanstudio Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

I think your "beige" is actually a "sable" gene carried on the A Locus. A "double" sable (ay/ay) produces the red - a clear sable so to speak.

Ay is primarily dominant (or semi-dominant) to the other alleles in the series.

I'm not that familiar with the breed but this is my interpretation. When the sable is paired with one of the other alleles, either "a" (solid black) or "at" (tan points) the black "bleeds" through producing a sort of greying of the red, hence beige, and a shadow of the underlaying "pattern". I believe that your pictures are telling part of this story.

Thus a beige will carry black&tan (ay/at) or black (ay/a).

A red will carry only red (ay/ay).

A black will carry only black (a/a).

A black&tan may carry black as a recessive but not red.


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Last edited by gaylanstudio on 5/14/2020 11:52:46 PM

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