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Hi there, I was wondering what people’s experience was of breeding with dogs with low show shine (who otherwise have very good sop)? Do they tend to produce a lot of low show shine pups or can it work out well? Thanks in advance

This girl,

Carnewf One More Time

Came from this dam,

Carnewf Ramona

So, yes, it can turn out well.

This dam has produced other finishable pups as well.

Cheers,
Carolyn

Thank you Carolyn. Really useful

This low shine boy has produced some good offspring as well.

https://www.showdog.com/dog.aspx?id=17561731

C

I use this tactic a lot, as show shine is one of the easiest things to bring up. Breeding a dog with a high adjusted sop (with low show shine but high when adjusted for their other traits)) and another good sop dog with 20 show shine can produce some good pup. Like anything it’s a bit of the luck of the draw but I have gotten some great pups this way. The more low Ss in a pedigree though the greater the odds of low show shine in the pups so I tend to make sure I alternate generations if I use this tactic.

I do not breed any dog with low SS. I FH them.
That low SS will come back, generations later, and bite you …you know where.

It is true that the more low show shine in the line the more likely pups will be to have low show shine. But I do think it’s worth the bump occasionally as I’ve had some of my top sop breaking pups out of a low show shine cross.
Definitely personal preference though!

I look at it as a trait like any other, and it's a trait with a very small overall influence at that.

If the dog has good numbers in other traits especially those that I'm overall a little lacking in, I will keep it if I can.

If I have plenty of others just or almost as good ignoring the shine I will FH the low shines.

A lot depends on the status of the kennel and the breed in question - I only have flexible rules and criteria, nothing's carved in stone.

And yes is true that the more any number for any trait appears in a pedigree and the closer that numbers are to the front, the greater the potential to show up in the offspring. Thus if you have a lot of low SS in the kennel, you might want to be more strict about who gets to stay.

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Last edited by gaylanstudio on 6/8/2021 10:20:42 PM

what is the formula for figuring SOP should a low SS dog have a higher one? I know I wrote it down somewhere and now can't find it...

Example: Take a dog with low SS of 18.1 and a SOP of 97.55.

Subtract the actual SS of 18.1 from the maximum SS of 20.

Divide the result by 2 (you get 0.95).

You then add this result to his SOP of 97.55.

The result is his adjusted SS of 98.50.

Hope this helps

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Last edited by Aussiewolfsister on 6/9/2021 1:21:19 AM

I would only breed from a low SS if they displayed a new VH trait that I am trying to improve ie a 10 when the norm is 9.8.
But Clwyd is right, in my breeds, it will come back to bite you generations down the line.

It does come back to bite you. I FHd two litters in one of my kennels yesterday by a young high SOP stud I had high hopes for--- all but one pup with very low SS (17+/-) and not a dog in the pedigree below 20 several generations back. I haven't taken the time to go back farther than that, but it had to come from somewhere!

He gets one more litter. If it happens again, FHd.

Thank you very much everyone. Very interesting and helpful. I have mated the high quality low show shine bitch to a high quality dog and will see what I get. If something nice and useful to my breeding plans then I shall use sparingly taking note of some of your experiences occurring further down the line from low SS dogs. Thanks agajn

Been playing since 2003. I almost always FH anything with a SS of less than 20. As someone else said, it WILL come back to bite you at some point in the future.

it is a silent killer and it will hurt the breed in my opinion.