.com Forum · Bug Reporting and Suggestions
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| griffin Basic User Posts : 3,000+  |
this post has been edited 1 time(s) quoteI don't think I understand could you please explain? What level of winning are you talking about - BIB? BIG? BIS? Also how does effectively paying users to Ch dogs through the offspring of the Chs (or through FH Ch-ed dogs) different than paying users to Ch dogs through show payouts - other than the fact that basics get a lot less for the former than paying users? Finally having been here 10 years I can't remember when it was that people earned so much from shows that they didn't sell un-Ched dogs to basics... For that matter the only time I remember making a profit with a show placement less than BIB was when tons of basics were showing dogs so there were breed entries of 20+ dogs. Although I do remember the sweet payouts from 60+ entry specialty shows... grif, ----- Last edited by griffin on 12/23/2013 7:47:59 PM |
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| Welsh Corgi Kennels Basic User Posts : 5,000+ |
Sorry to be rude, but this is such an idiotic idea, seriously. YOU are the one who chose an un-popular breed, YOU must face the fact that there will not be a lot of profit gain from it. If you want to cry and complain that you have no money, then who's fault was it for not managing your money better? I was in a super un-popular breed (maybe me and one other breeder) for a little over a year and I ALWAYS had over 1k, because I was good at managing my kennel. If I couldn't afford that extra bitch, then I didn't get the bitch. If I couldn't afford to breed to that super stud, I bred to a cheaper, still good stud. The fact is, this will NEVER come into the game and it WILL get abused severely, HORRIBLY, at that. I get it that you don't give away free quality pups in person, but this is a game, not real life. It irks me whenever I see people say "but that's how it is in real life!" Well in real life, people with un-popular dogs have OTHER JOBS. If it were up to me I'd just delete the breeds that are excess to the game until we have enough players. Because obviously they are causing people to cry about money wayyy to much. There's some, like me, who have it pretty well off in un-popular breeds. If you're really THAT bad in debt, get a more popular breed that has sales for good, quality dogs. Because let me tell you, I only FH crap dogs, and that shouldn't be awarded with money. If you bring a litter into this world of showdog, the litter BETTER give something to the game, really be something special. Every breeding should be well planned for the best, but it doesn't always happen. In the end, no no no no NO to this. I would be SO ANGRY to get money off of crappy dogs. So angry. |
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| linlin23 Basic User Posts : 235 |
quoteIn order to do this, they would need to finish 10 females, which isn't easy for me and I doubt it's easy for other breeders. Not to mention many judges have a biase toward males. And these "zero cost" studs you speak of must be champions or grand champions. In my breed CH and GCH dogs usually cost $100 stud fee and are rarely, if ever, for sale. Plus this is ineffective in the long term because if you are constantly forever homing dogs, how can you be producing champions? And producing champions requires money to session and more money to feed. So you could not simply puppy mill as you imply. |
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| linlin23 Basic User Posts : 235 |
quoteI don't have a problem with criticism, but I'm bothered that you imply I've been whining about how little money I bring in. I'm actually mainly in Newfies, a relatively popular breed. I did not "cry and complain" about having no money, in fact I have never dipped below $2000. There has been lots of talk about boosting the economy on SD, and this is one potential way to do it. I disagree that every litter must have purpose, because this is a game. In RL I completely agree that you need to be bringing something special and benefit the breed. On SD, I disagree. I experiment because there are no consequences. Cutting off unpopular breeds will not solve any problems, because if they desired to work in other breeds they probably would. Newfies is not an uncommon breed on SD but if it was I might quit SD if I could no longer work in the breed I had spent so much time in. I understand not wanting a reward for FH'ing crappy dogs, so perhaps the monetary reward could only be when you FH CH and GCH dogs, rather than include the offspring. |
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| Lilliput Basic User Posts : 3,000+ |
this post has been edited 1 time(s) quoteExcept that you COULD. Finishing dogs, male or female, is not a big deal in many breeds. It's never been a big issue for me in my current kennel. And bitches can breed until they die. You finish one bitch a month, which is not many at all, and within 10 months, you have 10 ch breeding bitches. How will I get more bloodlines? From those bitches of course. There's now financial incentive to choose CH or GCH sires, but those are hardly in short supply. My bitches were nice enough to CH, and so bred to the right CH or GCH males, will give me one or two keeper pups, and the rest I can FH for profit. Indeed, this may encourage me to breed EVEN MORE, because now even if I don't want any pup, there is still incentive to breed the litter and FH the pups. If I get something nice, great, but the money will encourage me to keep breeding until I have another CH bitch to replace her with, whether I want the pups or not. ----- Last edited by Lilliput on 12/24/2013 2:50:44 AM |
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| Laffy-Taffy Kennels Basic User Posts : 3,000+ |
this post has been edited 1 time(s) I've never complained about not doing well money-wise because of the breed I'm in. I've been quite "rich" actually, through bannermaking, though ATM I'm experiencing a leaner time. I've always used more inside studs, but when you're just starting out in a breed, you don't want to spend too much, so males aren't generally on that list to buy(though I did purchase a finishable stud in one breed I'm starting out in). But, I still think that getting some kind of compensation for FHing CH/GCH dogs (and potentially their offspring as we've discussed) would be nice. I've lived without it for all the months I've been a Premie, so it isn't a big deal. Plus, I like keeping some of my titled dogs. Not all of them, of course, but the more special dogs. I've even kept two studs that were excellent producers in their time. Alexandria ----- Last edited by Laffy-Taffy Kennels on 12/24/2013 9:54:44 AM |
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| Welsh Corgi Kennels Basic User Posts : 5,000+ |
quoteI was NOT just talking about you. You are not the first to come up with this "original awesome idea". |
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| gaylanstudio Premium Member Posts : 2,000+  |
It's a game - I'm not sure that "puppymill" is really an issue, but. . . I have an alternative way to implement this idea. Each day, all of the puppies born the previous 24 hours in each breed are totaled. This is used to establish the current population growth by breed. Next, determine 10% (negotiable) of that growth. Now look at all the dogs under 30 days (negotiable also) that were FH'd in each breed. Randomly select the number representing 10% of the growth and award a "Pet Purchase" credit to the “seller”. It should be done so that these credits are distributed equally among all the kennels. This is sort of the simple form. More complexity is added if quality is also considered. And it has been discussed before (and rejected by Admin) although I think with some considerations/limitations it’s a valid idea. The financial awards would not be so much that uncontrolled breeding results in significant gain, but so that the “credits” come as a nice little surprise. |
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| linlin23 Basic User Posts : 235 |
quoteI see what you mean with this, and I think that a system like this would require more coding but isn't nearly as subject to abuse. For clarity, the general consensus seems to be that the problem with puppymilling is not how humane it is or not, the problem is we don't want to redirect the focus of the game to endless breeding without a goal. Of course, we run into a bit of a dilemma with the realism element-- in RL no responsible breeder will give away free dogs, but in RL there are other expenses, a finite number of pet homes, and of course puppy mills are horribly inhumane. Lilliput, I see your point about finishing females quickly, evidently my experience in my breed does not carry over to several other breeds. The easiest solution to this would be to set limits and place restrictions, although I do like what GaylanStudio suggested. Welsh Corgi Kennels, I think that we are both interpreting each other incorrectly. Your responses seem to be referring to when this has been suggested in the past, and I think that "You are not the first to come up with this 'original awesome idea'," is not fitting, because I never claimed this to be an original or awesome idea, and your sarcasm is aimed at me despite the fact that I never said many of the things you mentioned. I think that you are really addressing the various times in the past this has been suggested, but I ask that you keep your comments only on what I have suggested. Now, if my original post had look like this, your comments would have been justified: "So I came up with this awesome idea, what if we got money for forever homing dogs?  This would be good so we can make more money because it isn't fair that people with popular breeds make more money  In real life you would get money for selling the puppies so this would make it more life-like! It's too hard to make money so we need another way to make more money. I have almost no money so this would help ppl like me who need the money. Not everybody can be in a popular breed and make money which isn't fair so we need another way to earn money.Anyway I think my idea is pretty original bcuz I don't see it suggested anywhere else but plz only nice comments cause I don't like criticism  "(On Howrse, another sim game I play, ideas structured like this are the rule, not the exception, unfortunately.) |
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| Laffy-Taffy Kennels Basic User Posts : 3,000+ |
Well, Linlin, on all my time on here, I've never heard somebody take this much into consideration. It's always been more like "we want to be paid for FHed dogs" and nobody's ever really thought about it. Alexandria |
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| Lilliput Basic User Posts : 3,000+ |
quoteI have to agree with this. I may be against the idea, but I am impressed with how much thought went into it, and do very much appreciate that. |
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| Laffy-Taffy Kennels Basic User Posts : 3,000+ |
One thing I still don't understand is why people are so worried about the whole puppy milling. I'm against in RL, but what does it hurt on here? Honestly? If we can ALL FH, then we ALL profit from it. The Premies will have more of a profit, but the Premies already have, so... Alexandria |
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| Tangle Wood Kennel Basic User Posts : 24 |
I just have one more thing to say about this. As usual there are always those that get their feelings hurt when there is a discussion. I wish this wasn't true about SDers but it is. All I am going to say is that I think input is the key to getting a change done on SD and that criticizing each other is not necessary. I end my message with as usual just staying out of it from now on. Merry Christmas and try to smile and enjoy SD rather than argue. Still love the game. Nan |
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| admin Administrator Forum Moderator Posts : 5,000+   |
We're not doing money for FH'd litters. It will turn the game into a dog production game. I could go into detail but I'll just say that after doing nothing but running games for the past ten years, that's one of the only absolutely certainties there are. |
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| linlin23 Basic User Posts : 235 |
quoteWell, what about FH'ing CH and GCH dogs? |
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| griffin Basic User Posts : 3,000+ |
this post has been edited 1 time(s) quoteBecause this is SHOWdog. The game is meant to be about showing dogs it is not supposed be amount breeding as many dogs as you can. quoteWhy does it have to be linked to FH'ing? - lots of people would rather sell their CHs so they can benefit the breed rather than FH them. I would rather have a CH/GCH cash prize than have you get money from FH'ing them. grif, ----- Last edited by griffin on 12/25/2013 4:29:38 AM |
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| linlin23 Basic User Posts : 235 |
@ Grif That's a perfectly valid idea as well, but if I'm not mistaken that was proposed in the activeness vs passiveness topic. I do like that idea, though. |
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| Laffy-Taffy Kennels Basic User Posts : 3,000+ |
I thought that's what I've been doing the past 11 months, producing dogs. Glad to be told otherwise. Alexandria |
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| Laffy-Taffy Kennels Basic User Posts : 3,000+ |
quoteI suppose that's true, but there are other people on here, besides me, who like breeding much more than showing. I do get your point, but even though the name of this site is what it is, some people just breed too. Alexandria |
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| griffin Basic User Posts : 3,000+ |
There are also people who like showing more than breeding and want to be able to be competitive without pointlessly breeding as much as possible within the rules of the game. grif, |
12/23/2013 7:46:05 PM
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