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If you haven’t noticed, the breeds that are getting colors are breeds that have fairly simple genetics or that have a very detailed and simple to understand source of information.

Prior to MinPins we were setting up breed genetics on a breed by breed basis. With MinPins, we’ve setup a system that can be used for all breeds fairly easily once we have a genetic model for that breed.

It takes me a couple hours per breed to find the information, figure it out, and implement it. I simply don’t have the time or resources to do that for 180 breeds at this point. So basically, I’m asking you guys to do my job for me.

If you would like to get your breed moved up the list on colors, we would love to have users submit genetic models. If you would like to try to scale that mountain do so in your breed forum and when you come to a good agreement with everyone in the breed, we’ll implement it as soon as we can.

What we need…

Relevant Locus and Genes

This is fairly simple, just each locus that impacts the breed and the available genes for that breed.

----Example----
Locus - A
Genes – Ay, At
-------------------

Genetic Model

This is the hard part, basically how those genes interact with each other. There are two options for this…

One - You can list all genetic combinations which can be quite an undertaking but is necessary for each breed. For example, MinPin has 256 if you count each heterozygous pair as two possible combinations. An Excel spreadsheet uploaded somewhere might be the best way to do this.

Two – General rules for the genetic interactions. This is easier but may lead to errors in how I implement it if I don’t quite understand it.

Suggestion

The KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) rule is golden. If albinos are insanely rare in your breed, don’t waste time with that gene. However, we’ll try to implement as much detail as we can so you use it if you want.

Post references, not personal attacks when discussing the colors. Your fellow users are trying to reach the same goal as you. Personal attacks or “I know better because I’m just smarter” type posts will be deleted.

Here is a simple website for Alaskan Malamute coat color inheritance. If you need it further simplified, I can get that info as this is a friend of mine.

nicholescritters.homestead.com/malcolorgenetics.html

suz richardson
kimoko malamutes

[I'm highlighting this post because it's a great example of the kind of guidance we are looking for. The only other thing I need is the percentage of starter dogs that should come from each color (or even genetic combination).

-jeff]

www.dpca.org/color.chart.5.html

I think this will give you most of what you need.
There are only 4 approved dobe colors.
Black and Rust, Red and Rust, Blue and Rust and Fawn and Rust.
Here is more info:

1
BBDD #1 is a black Doberman (BB) who can only produce black offspring because it only has non-dilute factor (DD) genes. Its genotype is (BBDD) and is referred to as a "#1 Black".

2
BBDd #2 is a black Doberman (BB) who carries the dilute gene (Dd). It can produce black offspring if it contributes the non-dilute factor (D) gene or blue offspring if it contributes the dilute factor (d) gene. Its genotype is (BBDd) and is known as a "#2 Black".

3
BbDD #3 is a black Doberman who can produce red offspring (Bb) and does not carry the dilution factor gene (DD). It produces black by contributing the dominant black gene (B) and red by contributing the recessive red (b) gene but has no dilution factor genes to produce blues or fawns. Its genotype is (BbDD) and is known as a "#3 Black".

4
BbDd #4 is a black Doberman who can produce red offspring (Bb) and can also contribute the dilute (Dd) gene. This dog can produce all four colors depending on which color genes - black (B) or red (b) - and which dilute factor genes Ð dilute (d) or non-dilute (D) - are contributed and in what combination. Its genotype is (BbDd) and is known as a "#4 Black".

5
BBdd #5 is a blue Doberman (dd) whose color genotype is black (BB). Remember you need two dilute factor genes (dd) to get dilution. This dog can only produce blue or black. This dog can contribute only the black (B) color gene and can contribute only a dilute factor gene (d). Its genotype is (BBdd) and is known as a "#5 Blue".

6
Bbdd #6 is a blue Doberman (dd) who can produce red offspring (Bb). This dog can produce all four colors much like the #4, depending on which color and dilute genes are contributed by each parent. Its genotype is (Bbdd) and is known as a "#6 Blue".

7
bbDD #7 is a red Doberman (bb) that does not produce dilution (DD). This dog can produce reds and blacks by contributing a red (b) color gene but no dilution as it only has non-dilute factor (D) genes. Its genotype is (bbDD) and is known as a "#7 Red".

8
bbDd #8 is a red Doberman (bb) that can produce dilution (Dd). This dog can produce all four colors depending on the combination of color and dilute genes given by each parent. It can only give a red (b) color gene but contribute either a dilute (d) or non-dilute (D) gene. Its genotype is (bbDd) and is known as a "#8 Red".

9
bbdd #9 is a fawn Doberman who's color genes are red (bb) with both dilute genes (dd) to make it fawn, the dilute of red. This dog can produce all four colors also. A fawn dog always contributes a red (b) color gene and a dilute (d) gene. Its genotype is (bbdd) and is known as "fawn" (or Isabella) since this is the only genotype combination that a fawn Doberman can have.

GeriR

This is the site I refer to most when planning a breeding for my (RL)Labradors. It is clear and concise:

www.blueknightlabs.com/color/coatcolor.html

And the minpin site I posted in two other threads (in a diff. forum):
www.miniature-pinscher.info/colour.htm

Those are great references, guys, but you need to post them in your BREED forums, get consensus, and then go to Jeff. He said he doesn't have time to go looking at all the resources himself, so even great links are probably not going to be helpful.

bowlingsite.mcf.com/Genetics/Genrefs.html

I found this site earler. I dont know how much help it will be.

We're not really looking for links to other sites in this thread.

We're well aware of the sites that come up from basic Google searches.

Just to further emphasise it, I've got Doberman Pinscher colors setup now based on the post above. All I need is the allocation of starter dog colors and I can start updating that breed.

Back when I was in animal behavioral psychology a cocker spaniel formula for genetics went as follows. This example is only for black and brown, but this formula can be used with most dogs of multicolor, even including "E" and "e" as a white , sable or other color implimentation.

Example of Black and Brown only.

BB = Black dominant
b = brown resessive

BB+BB=BB All black pups
BB+Bb= a probability of 2 BB and 2 Bb pups.
BB+bb= all black probability of 1 brown pup
Bb+Bb= 3 black and 1 brown
Bb +bb= 2 black and 2 brown
bb+bb= all brown.

If you're getting super technical then the "E" factor can change everything. When the dog inherits 2 recessive "e" alleles, it's black pigment distribution is restricted to the eyes and nose. The complementary effects of "E" and
e" on the 2 inhereted B alleeles permists a lot of combinations.

Example.

BB+ee or Bb+ee= sable with black nose and eyes
bb+EE or bb+ee = brown or chocolate with a brown nose
bb+ee= pale sable yellow or cream with pink nose.

I have a ton more breed combination. If this is what you're looking for. However finding out what dominant and ressessive colors are in a breed and mattching them with these formulas and the ones you mentioned are an ideal way to get all your breeds covered.

The siberian husky breeders got together when you first started implementing the colors,and made this post for you.
www.showdog.com/login/Breeds/philboard_read.aspx?id=106374
There are websites there,but people have also suppiled the genetic formulas as well.Check out Griffins post,she has most of them.

Hope that helps
-LLK

The post by Griffin in that thread is about as good as it gets for this.

www.showdog.com/login/Breeds/philboard_read.aspx?id=106374

Shetland Sheepdogs

I have listed here all possible colors for purebred Shetland Sheepdogs. Note that not all of them are "approved" or "allowed" colors. "Allowed" colors are underlined

Genes that vary in Shelties are: A, M, S
They are fixed at E/E, ky/ky, B/B, D/D

Sables and Tricolors generally predominate, with blue merle being relatively common. Bi-black and bi-blue are significantly less common. Sable merles are common primarily due to irresponsible breeding of a sable to a bi-blue or blue merle, but in show lines should not be present. Same with double merle. Due to the health issues associated with double merles, it may be easier to apply that effect to ShowDog by having smaller litters resulting from breedings of merle to merle, or even having double merles die sooner. Though it is not a lethal trait in real life, breeding of double merles should have some negative consequence here. Color headed whites are quite rare.

If I had to make guesses at the proportions of source dogs of each color, I would estimate:
Sable 50%
Tricolor 30%
Bi black 20%

Roughly 30% of the total would be merle (either sable merle, blue merle, or bi blue).

Roughly 5% (or less?) of the total would be color headed white (sable, tri, bi black, sable merle, blue merle, bi blue).


Sable
ay/ay m/m si/si
ay/at m/m si/si
ay/a m/m si/si
ay/ay m/m si/sp
ay/at m/m si/sp
ay/a m/m si/sp

Tricolor
at/at m/m si/si
at/a m/m si/si
at/at m/m si/sp
at/a m/m si/sp

Bi-black
a/a m/m si/si
a/a m/m si/sp

Blue Merle
at/at M/m si/si
at/a M/m si/si
at/at M/m si/sp
at/a M/m si/sp

Bi-Blue
a/a M/m si/si
a/a M/m si/sp

Sable Merle
ay/ay M/m si/si
ay/at M/m si/si
ay/a M/m si/si
ay/ay M/m si/sp
ay/at M/m si/sp
ay/a M/m si/sp

Color Headed White
ay/ay m/m sp/sp (sable head)
ay/at m/m sp/sp (sable head)
ay/a m/m sp/sp (sable head)
at/at m/m sp/sp (tri head)
at/a m/m sp/sp (tri head)
a/a m/m sp/sp (black head)
at/at M/m sp/sp (blue merle head)
at/a M/m sp/sp (blue merle head)
a/a M/m sp/sp (bi-blue head)
ay/ay M/m sp/sp (sable merle head)
ay/at M/m sp/sp (sable merle head)
ay/a M/m sp/sp (sable merle head)

Double Merle (often associated with primarily white coloration, hearing and visual defects)
at/at M/M si/si
at/a M/M si/si
at/at M/M si/sp
at/a M/M si/sp
a/a M/M si/si
a/a M/M si/sp
ay/ay M/M si/si
ay/at M/M si/si
ay/a M/M si/si
ay/ay M/M si/sp
ay/at M/M si/sp
ay/a M/M si/sp

What do we do if we cannot find accurate statistics on how often colors show up/how many of the breed are a color? If we could access registry statistics on how many dogs are registered of certain colors that would help alot!
nic

I don't need accurate percentages, just estimates would work as long as your breed agrees on it.

This was compiled by Idals for Lowchen, it's posted in the lowchen forum.

www.showdog.com/login/Breeds/philboard_read.aspx?id=107586

Ok here is what I've done for the Tibetan Mastiffs and since there are only like 3 or 4 of us left in the breed (if that ) hopefully they'll give it the A-OK!

www.showdog.com/login/Breeds/philboard_read.aspx?id=110078&recordnum=0

LMK if you need anything else!

Smiles,
Nic

I just replied to the post in our breed forum
GeriR

BTW I said: 33% Black, 33% Red, 17% Blue and 17% Fawn

You might find this site VERY useful:

www.kolumbus.fi/sarakontu/link/canlinks.html

Also this one:

www.google.com/Top/Recreation/Pets/Dogs/Genetics/Coat_and_Coloration/Breeds/

Lots of different breeds.

Okay for the Cardigan Welsh Corgi breeders here are the colors as "basic" as they get in the lil kids. www.phi-vestavia.com/colorchart.htm
I don't know the best way to break it down for you so I just gave you the link that has her own breakdown of if x is bred to x then y will be the outcome. kinda thing. Unfortunatly Cardigans are kinda hard for color breeding too many color combinations to work with.
Thanks Jeff!
Brittany

One question- In havanese, which comes in every color and pattern you can imagine, do you just want colors, or things like Parti/Irish Pied(most all one color with some)/Piebald(almost all white)/solid color/tan markings, etc...

Thank you

Natasha