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Author Topic : Dog Hoarder
 Maverick Gun Dogs
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9/25/2020 2:41:23 PM reply with quote send message to Maverick Gun Dogs Object to Post   

Just curious to know your thoughts on this.

If there is a breed where there are zero dogs available and only one kennel has all of the high SOP dogs, what would their reasoning be for refusing to sell one of their dogs, or offer one of their dog for stud?

I understand this is a game and everyone can do as they please. That's not where I'm going with this. I guess I'm just curious as to how it would benefit a kennel over the long term to hoard all of the dogs in the breed for themselves? Wouldn't inbreeding begin to occur in higher percentages? Does that even affect the dog if it gets too high? They don't show in their breed.

What do ya'll think the benefit of hoarding is? I see a lot of folks using starter dogs in this breed. Can you imagine how diverse the breed could become again if they were to work with other breeders?

Just wanted to get a conversation started! Happy Friday!
 Azawakh Inc.
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9/25/2020 3:46:05 PM reply with quote send message to Azawakh Inc. Object to Post

Not knowing which breed you are referring to, I may be guilty of "hoarding", but if someone wanted to get into my breed, all it would take is a quick message and I would try to help them out if I had anything available.
On the COI issue, Most all mine are interbred- the highest that I have ever gone is 18 to 20%. Average being around 9 to 13 Percent COI.
Although, the percentage does affect the dog, if you do a breeding from that dog to a distant relative, say grand sire/dam, watching the COI, you can lower it and have some good results.
When you breed, you must watch the COI on resulting pups- which is shown on prospective breedings page.
Hope I haven't confused you on that- sometimes I tend to ramble on...
 BarStar
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9/26/2020 5:01:00 PM reply with quote send message to BarStar Object to Post

I am not afraid of no stinking COI anymore :P

https://www.showdog.com/dog.aspx?id=17344318

Dog from my last Borzoi breeding. I couldn't find a male I liked for my last special girl so I bred her to her brother.

6 pups. ALL 100 SS20.

It works if you do it right.

Will
 GreatBasinK9s
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9/26/2020 5:31:05 PM reply with quote send message to GreatBasinK9s Object to Post

quote
posted by BarStar
I am not afraid of no stinking COI anymore :P

https://www.showdog.com/dog.aspx?id=17344318

Dog from my last Borzoi breeding. I couldn't find a male I liked for my last special girl so I bred her to her brother.

6 pups. ALL 100 SS20.

It works if you do it right.

Will

I never realized that he had such a high COI percentage :P lol
 Clwyd Cockers
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9/26/2020 5:37:52 PM reply with quote send message to Clwyd Cockers Object to Post

Well I tried it in this kennel.
I highly doubt I will get a 100 SOP out of this 28% coi breeding...LMAO!!
 XiZang
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9/26/2020 6:10:18 PM reply with quote send message to XiZang Object to Post

Brother x sister breeding, COI of 26%

https://www.showdog.com/dog.aspx?id=17266216
 Azawakh Inc.
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9/26/2020 6:16:25 PM reply with quote send message to Azawakh Inc. Object to Post

Gee-
Y'all are a lot braver than I am on that! hahaha
 XiZang
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9/26/2020 9:09:44 PM reply with quote send message to XiZang Object to Post

I have no problem doing anything like that because after all, what is there to lose?
 Pearl City
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9/28/2020 11:57:59 PM reply with quote send message to Pearl City Object to Post

Y’all just gave me an idea to try it out.. I’m curious to what the results will be like (and not in a 100 sop breed) because I’ve never gone higher than 15% so I’m curious lol
 Maverick Gun Dogs
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9/29/2020 12:33:26 PM reply with quote send message to Maverick Gun Dogs Object to Post

quote
posted by Azawakh Inc.
Not knowing which breed you are referring to, I may be guilty of "hoarding", but if someone wanted to get into my breed, all it would take is a quick message and I would try to help them out if I had anything available.
You definitely are not who I'm talking about, don't worry! Myself and a few others have reached out to this kennel and all messages are seen and completely ignored. They have no interest in advancing their breed outside of their own lines.

And that's perfectly okay! It is a game. I was just curious to see what you all had to say about possible benefits.

Thanks for the replies!
In regards to COI, I have always wanted to go high just to see what happens, but something in my brain just won't allow me to pull the trigger! LOL
 PPvallhunds
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10/2/2020 11:56:39 AM reply with quote send message to PPvallhunds Object to Post

could be they don't want the competition?

Once coi gets over 15% it starts effecting the litters, more so the higher over it you to it as show above you can still get nice dogs going over it.
To be honest I rearley use outside studs or buy in bitches in this kennel and I don't really get a problem with coi, I make sure to keep different males for breeding and they don't tend to hang around for that long unless they have something I want that no other dog has. This seems to keep my breeding choices coi wise fine
 Black Raven Kennels
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10/5/2020 12:11:09 AM reply with quote send message to Black Raven Kennels Object to Post

I own Beaucerons, Mudi, and Alaskan Klee Kais, and am technically the only breeder there (I think there's still others for the Mudi). I do offer dogs for sale/stud, but since those two breeds aren't popular, I only breed to continue. I've happily breed litters when inquired and sold both pups and adults for others to use in their breeding programs. Sometimes, all you need to do is ask. I don't login everyday much anymore, but I do respond asap if possible. Work has been very busy (I'm a Mortician) and I also show Great Danes irl.

Whispering Secrets is my Beauceron Kennel.

raincloudkennel is my AKK kennel.

Dark River is my Mudi kennel.

So if any of those were what you were referring to, just email me in them and let me know what you're looking for.
 BarStar
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10/5/2020 6:26:26 PM reply with quote send message to BarStar Object to Post

I'm finding that 28% is my cut of point on COI.

Here are some recent examples:

Daughter to Father:
https://www.showdog.com/dog.aspx?id=17350775
26% Slight dip in SOP but not much of an effect.

Brother to Sister from above pairing:
https://www.showdog.com/dog.aspx?id=17388931
26% Similar slight dip in SOP.

Son from first pairing back to original mom:
https://www.showdog.com/dog.aspx?id=17406129
39% Larger dip in SOP. The drop in sop is 99ish to 98ish.

And you saw my Borzoi breeding of full brother to sister that produced all 100s.

So COI isn't as horrible as we always thought.

Will
 Aldeberan
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10/6/2020 2:41:54 PM reply with quote send message to Aldeberan Object to Post

I just bred a SPoodle back to her dad (25%). I do inbreeding quite a bit.
 Black Raven Kennels
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9/25/2021 12:58:26 PM reply with quote send message to Black Raven Kennels Object to Post

quote
posted by BarStar
I'm finding that 28% is my cut of point on COI.

Here are some recent examples:

Daughter to Father:
https://www.showdog.com/dog.aspx?id=17350775
26% Slight dip in SOP but not much of an effect.

Brother to Sister from above pairing:
https://www.showdog.com/dog.aspx?id=17388931
26% Similar slight dip in SOP.

Son from first pairing back to original mom:
https://www.showdog.com/dog.aspx?id=17406129
39% Larger dip in SOP. The drop in sop is 99ish to 98ish.

And you saw my Borzoi breeding of full brother to sister that produced all 100s.

So COI isn't as horrible as we always thought.

Will

Especially for a specific trait. I will inbreed, line breed, and then outcross if need be. It all depends on what I need to increase or decrease, as well as how well the dogs show too.
 XiZang
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9/25/2021 11:21:11 PM reply with quote send message to XiZang Object to Post

Going back to the 'hoarding' question. I have gone to kennels for various reasons and seen some with at least 50 adult dogs, often more. How do they have all these dogs? Doesn't the dogcatcher come anymore?
 DetroitKennel
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9/26/2021 11:11:17 AM reply with quote send message to DetroitKennel Object to Post

The dog catcher doesn’t come unless you log in, so I know sometimes people who are mainly breeding not showing will only log in every month or so for a bulk breed and and in the mean time there numbers can inflate (usually go through the extras later to make room for a new breeding).

You cannot enter show or breed with over the limit so even if a kennel is over it definitely halts their progress.
 XiZang
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9/26/2021 2:32:04 PM reply with quote send message to XiZang Object to Post

Hmmm. So even if you logged in once a month to do a mass breeding, you couldn't anyway if you were over limited. Kind of seems pointless. When I checked the last 2 kennels where this had happened, they had logged in that day. No litters due or anything, kind of makes you wonder what is the point.
 DetroitKennel
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9/26/2021 5:56:00 PM reply with quote send message to DetroitKennel Object to Post

I feel like some people just get behind with their kennel management but still want to keep stock in a breed/offer studs/be able to help newcomers if needed.
Since you can’t really be competitive (no breeding or showing if your over the limit) no harm no fowl really.
May honestly just be dropping in to check occasionally if they have a PM but don’t have time to go through and purge the kennel just yet. Who knows.
There’s a kennel that’s been super helpful to me, especially in offering studs of lower SOP colors that’s usually over but I’m great full for their studs!
 gaylanstudio
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9/26/2021 7:55:18 PM reply with quote send message to gaylanstudio Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

I'm almost always over!

I admit to "letting-go" issues (good job I don't do this for real - lol).

Deciding who goes and who stays can be quite time consuming so . . . I'll get to it another day.

Eventually I can't do anything anywhere so I'm forced into a major purge.

If you see anything you like, ask. I d let them go to "good homes".


Of course no one was referring to me,
"Poster-child pretend dog hoarder"

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Last edited by gaylanstudio on 9/28/2021 12:41:53 AM
 XiZang
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9/26/2021 8:08:50 PM reply with quote send message to XiZang Object to Post

I had been doing really well with cutting back on breeds and keeping my numbers reasonable, but then I have a nice litter or another breed catches my eye...

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The largest and most prestigious dog show in America is the Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show, was established in 1877 and is held annually at Madison Square Garden in New York City.