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Author Topic : Why ruin shows for lower sop dogs????
 All Eternity
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12/10/2021 9:56:13 PM reply with quote send message to All Eternity Object to Post   

Why do people do this? It's impossible in Alaskan Klee Kais right now (and I'm sure other lower breeds) to even finish let along get a GCH. I don't care about higher sop dogs being shared, if these people are that nasty why have anything to do with them in the first place!?

It's the fact there are five shows, and they are all taken by the higher sops. Even the $20.00 shows have it happen, but those are also left empty. I'm just sick of it, been watching for awhile now and the low sop dogs can't enter in advance, they can't even try for a Grand championship. And yes I did send those people emails asking what their point was because it's downright rude and bullying when there are that many shows to select from.

Had to rant, I'm tired of lower breeds getting screwed over. I've played in another kennel for years, trying to help lower breeds in this one.

I will say this, if anyone has any Alaskan Klee Kais that are in the 80+ sop range to reclaim, even for a few breedings, I will gladly pay that fee to try to help the others even if the dog or bitch dies (hopefully dog so bitch doesn't die pregnant).

Frustrated as hell-AE
 RoughDiamondKennel
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12/11/2021 8:58:26 AM reply with quote send message to RoughDiamondKennel Object to Post

I would try and remember that this is a competition game and I don’t think it’s fair to get mad at people for for simply showing competitively. If your dogs were not show quality it is to be expected that they will be beaten out by dogs that are show quality.
I think it’s a shame if a kennel is not willing to help out other trying to get started in a breed (but quite honestly still someone’s decision they are allowed to make), and I am very sorry if you were the subject of any bullying. But I do not particularly believe that showing dogs competitively could be considered bullying. Everyones free to enter whatever show they want and the best dogs according to the judge will win.
I completely understand how not being able to finish your dogs may be frustrating, but it seems like you may be personalizing something that really is just part of the game?
I work with color breeding in a lot of my kennels and it can take a while to get dogs up to show quality, but it’s worth it and in the end it pays off. It’s great to see months (or years) of work pay off when you finally have dogs that can compete with the current SOP that started from nothing. So just be patient, remember it is just a game. I hope things work out for you!
Best of luck.
 XiZang
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12/11/2021 9:59:45 AM reply with quote send message to XiZang Object to Post

I am breeding for a lost color in a 100 SOP breed and my dogs have very low SOP. I have been playing around with the idea of trying to finish one but I'm going to stop because one of them has 18 points now with no major.

It's frustrating, I put them in show with handlers and then someone with a high SOP dog enters and 'steals' the points. But I can't blame them, that's the point of this game. So I will stop showing those low SOP dogs. I can't reserve a show for them. If I keep up my breeding, at some point they will be competitive (if I live that long).

It's been brought up in the past that there should be a daily show for low SOP dogs (below a certain level) but that won't happen. So it's either plod along without majors, or just be patient and wait until they are competitive.

No point in being angry.
 All Eternity
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12/11/2021 11:22:35 AM reply with quote send message to All Eternity Object to Post

I've been playing since 2004, this is obviously not the first kennel lol. I know it's a competition game, I know how to play. The reason I'm showing my low sop [unpopular breeds] is to bring them back to the game as well as trying to see how they compare to each other, and their breed standard, so I can weed out the weak ones which is the purpose of confirmation showing in the real world, which also has nasty people.

The problem I have is these particular people said they would leave a couple (2) $5.00 shows (or lowest fee shows) open for the lower dogs and lied so they could finish their dogs. That isn't fair, it's deception and it's too bad that those dogs finished and grand championed don't count towards my records since I'm the one they're cheaply using.
One of these people said they would help with their stud males that were at the 80 range, but once I asked about a show to have for just the loser dogs they literally flipped out and ripped into me! It is their right to refuse stud service, it is not their right to freak out. I strongly dislike and distrust anyone who says one thing and does the opposite (game or real life). There is only one kennel that is **very** casual that has helped me advance when they do login so for that I am thankful and in their debt. When they do login, I will happily give them some of the 'updated' sop dogs of our breed.

In this breed we are having issues with, [it's not just myself, one player barely logs in now after being treated the same way I was, and the other doesn't bother to show as they too ripped into them for a simple stud inquiry. How is that okay? these two nasty players were known in the past for doing the same to others as well as running them out of the breed, THEN BRAGS ABOUT IT to those who email! I had to go back in the forums for YEARS past to learn the origins of that one, messed up.

On top of that the most disgusting thing I just learned was one obsesses over a player YEARS ago that they ran out of the breed, when in reality that player died of breast cancer. The daughter of that player had to listen to the trash talk since the person had no idea who they were talking to. Katy didn't even know that this player was the one her mother had tried to work with until she re opened old emails. This may be useless and 'trash talk' to you guys, but that is terrible and disgusting to still be obsessed from many years past.

So no, I have a right to vent, a right to be be irritated, and every right to be disgusted with these people as well as frustrated.

If it is okay for people get mad when entries are pulled at the last minute, or people hog all the handlers that are good, or some starter dog wins best in show, why would what we are experiencing this breed be acceptable? These are all competition scenarios are they not? The withdrawal of entries and handler hogging.

I would like to know why would being told to leave the breed be okay and that they "will make it impossible to show" these dogs to progress and better the lines I have? They didn't answer the question.

I must be one of the few that try to not enter shows with lower sop dogs in my higher sop breeds.

The two other lower sop breeders also had the same treatment I did, including being told to leave the breed.

I'm not sorry that I think this is bullying and very, very wrong. So yes I will be using my legal tactics (that I will not reveal) to better my dogs. I am top kennel in four breeds in this game, and I'm happy to help people, even giving them some of my BEST breeding stock or show dogs. No one is obligated to do that but we ALL started with crappy dogs. I don't want top in this breed, I wanted teamwork as it used to be. no one needs to be nasty about it. People should be able to stick to their words as far as keeping 2 out of 5 shows available for others. Show stacking at its finest.

Yeah, the post is long. Thank you to anyone who actually reads it. Everyone has their opinions and I am not here to fight but to vent what has gone on for six or more months, but I cannot understand anyone who agrees with (or even perhaps promote) such vile behavior. Myself and the other player will excel in this breed with time. I just can't believe people do this in a game, or real life for that matter.

Perhaps some players can relate to this experience, and perhaps others actually do this behavior thus support it-I don't know. "It is what it is" but karma is a wonderful thing.

All I ask is if anyone responds to keep it civil and I will return the courtesy. I would very much like to know the answers to the various questions I posed or at least ideas about them. If anyone wants to personally message me, go ahead. The same request as above applies.
Thank you.
 
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12/11/2021 12:52:15 PM reply with quote send message to Object to Post edit post

It does sound like you have been through quite an ordeal. I am sorry that anyone feels that abusive emails and treating people disrespectfully is okay in any situation and I am sorry you had to experience something like that while trying to enjoy showdogs. I by no means meant to imply that you were never the recipient of bullying or mean spirited offenses here. Just the description of the issues you were having with showing low sop dogs seemed a bit more par for the course than bullying. Your further explanation does seem to clarify that that perhaps it’s less of the semantics that’s bothering you, but the intent of the other user.
There is a huge difference in someone just going about their business and showing competitively than actively trying to target you or sending you disrespectful emails.
I really can’t fathom why anyone would do that and it’s definitely not acceptable behavior, but I suppose like any other bullying it’s likely from a source of deep rooted personal issues (not an excuse for anyone’s malicious actions however). I do hope you are able to continue in your breed despite any adversity. Stay positive and do what you can. All we can do sometimes!
 RoughDiamondKennel
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12/11/2021 12:54:07 PM reply with quote send message to RoughDiamondKennel Object to Post

quote
posted by
It does sound like you have been through quite an ordeal. I am sorry that anyone feels that abusive emails and treating people disrespectfully is okay in any situation and I am sorry you had to experience something like that while trying to enjoy showdogs. I by no means meant to imply that you were never the recipient of bullying or mean spirited offenses here. Just the description of the issues you were having with showing low sop dogs seemed a bit more par for the course than bullying. Your further explanation does seem to clarify that that perhaps it’s less of the semantics that’s bothering you, but the intent of the other user.
There is a huge difference in someone just going about their business and showing competitively than actively trying to target you or sending you disrespectful emails.
I really can’t fathom why anyone would do that and it’s definitely not acceptable behavior, but I suppose like any other bullying it’s likely from a source of deep rooted personal issues (not an excuse for anyone’s malicious actions however). I do hope you are able to continue in your breed despite any adversity. Stay positive and do what you can. All we can do sometimes!

This was my post (Roughdiamondkennel) again sorry it apparently timed me out when I was typing!
 All Eternity
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12/11/2021 1:29:35 PM reply with quote send message to All Eternity Object to Post

quote
posted by RoughDiamondKennel
quote
posted by
It does sound like you have been through quite an ordeal. I am sorry that anyone feels that abusive emails and treating people disrespectfully is okay in any situation and I am sorry you had to experience something like that while trying to enjoy showdogs. I by no means meant to imply that you were never the recipient of bullying or mean spirited offenses here. Just the description of the issues you were having with showing low sop dogs seemed a bit more par for the course than bullying. Your further explanation does seem to clarify that that perhaps it’s less of the semantics that’s bothering you, but the intent of the other user.
There is a huge difference in someone just going about their business and showing competitively than actively trying to target you or sending you disrespectful emails.
I really can’t fathom why anyone would do that and it’s definitely not acceptable behavior, but I suppose like any other bullying it’s likely from a source of deep rooted personal issues (not an excuse for anyone’s malicious actions however). I do hope you are able to continue in your breed despite any adversity. Stay positive and do what you can. All we can do sometimes!

This was my post (Roughdiamondkennel) again sorry it apparently timed me out when I was typing!

No apologies hun, you didn't know and I didn't write the novel because no one wants to read novels as an initial post haha. I understand hard work when creating a line, and the thing is they have my original bloodlines in their pedigrees. Imagine the slap in the face when after I ID'd who I was to them, that I got told off! I didn't expect to automatically obtain a few dogs, but it would have been nice to use a few studs at least. What happened to the daughter of the deceased player (and I DID know that person too) bugs me really bad, and I don't know how to let that go yet. Time will help, it's more the fact Katey had to experience that. I haven't said anything about it to the person, condolences of course to the daughter, but damn!

There are ways around these two people and their show hogging. They do get credit for not handler hogging though. I don't reveal how I now enter because word travels and sometimes it is difficult to judge my dogs' quality even if they are not winning. Winning isn't my priority, that'll come in time. I went from 45 sop to 73 sop (and share that with a friend) thanks to an old time player that logs in once in a great while, so when they log in again (whenever that may be) I will make sure they get some updated dogs. It's only fair.

I do wish good will for these two folks and I hope that they calm down and realize sharing shows isn't bad. Perhaps seek help I don't know their situation, but I would listen. I'm not a mean person unless I have to be. I won't leave the breed, I'm too stubborn, but it's hard as sometimes you get that really nice dog that made progress and would love a CH on it. Real life showing also develops a 'shell' that helps negate the negativity. happy :) I will continue to breed, show, and will always help anyone who is brave (or crazy enough hahaa) to join AKKs!

THank you for reading my response, it means a lot to me. Maybe they will too and perhaps understand from another perspective, who knows. Enjoy the game, it was great to chat with you. Feel free to message me anytime if you'd like as well!
 All Eternity
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12/11/2021 1:30:14 PM reply with quote send message to All Eternity Object to Post

LOL I just tried to 'like' your posts as if we were on social media hahahaha.
 RoughDiamondKennel
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12/11/2021 4:42:04 PM reply with quote send message to RoughDiamondKennel Object to Post

As you said sometimes you just have to vent. And possibly airing out your feelings will allow the others involved to see where you are coming from. If not just take the high road and persevere!
 bsgk3
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12/11/2021 7:20:51 PM reply with quote send message to bsgk3 Object to Post

For awhile, I was in AKKs, but got the same treatment. So I left, and moved on to another breed. Not that it helps much, but I DO hear and understand your frustration.
 All Eternity
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12/11/2021 8:09:50 PM reply with quote send message to All Eternity Object to Post

quote
posted by bsgk3
For awhile, I was in AKKs, but got the same treatment. So I left, and moved on to another breed. Not that it helps much, but I DO hear and understand your frustration.
I remember that, I was sad to see you go. If you'd like to message me, I would be happy to set you up with a couple of 70s if you want to do a breeding program.
 BarStar
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12/11/2021 8:37:01 PM reply with quote send message to BarStar Object to Post

A dog should be able to earn it's title. If there is a better dog actively being shown, the better dog should win.

Will
 All Eternity
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12/11/2021 9:26:51 PM reply with quote send message to All Eternity Object to Post

quote
posted by BarStar
A dog should be able to earn it's title. If there is a better dog actively being shown, the better dog should win.

Will

Yes, but when someone agrees to give you a chance, they shouldn't be asses about it and go back on it, especially with 5 shows to choose from. I have technically finished 50+ of their dogs when they have enough to make a 3 pt (and higher) major per sex in a different show. They select to do be asses on purpose.
 All Eternity
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12/11/2021 9:27:47 PM reply with quote send message to All Eternity Object to Post

quote
posted by BarStar
A dog should be able to earn it's title. If there is a better dog actively being shown, the better dog should win.

Will

I am more than happy to give you a show quality (low sop) AKK so you can experience this if you'd like?
 Orsodoro
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12/13/2021 5:33:08 AM reply with quote send message to Orsodoro Object to Post

I am more than positive BarStar has had their fair share of dogs in the ring that don't show well or finish... and likely the majority of players on the game.

There's not a lot one can do about non-team players on the game. There are limitations to the game for sure such as someone wanting to show their lower sop dogs and a higher sop being entered by someone else and that ruining gameplay for the one kennel. I've dealt with it on more than one occasion lol since 2009 and it's literally just part of the game. It's why I have quit breeds in the past as the stress is just not worth it, especially on a thing like a game that is supposed to "add" to quality of life not detract from it.

I've met a few ridiculous players on the game as well. They are strangers and it's not worth getting too P'd off at unknown people who don't care about you.

 Carolyn
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12/13/2021 8:56:05 AM reply with quote send message to Carolyn Object to Post

In defence of some players whose intents aren’t to purposely ruin it for players hoping to campaign their lower SOP ShowDog dogs…

I am sure there are some players, myself included, who enter a dog under a judge they prefer, or who prefers dogs with their dog’s qualities, and don’t check the SOPs of the other dogs already entered. This can very easily be the case with a judge that prefers the entries be owner handled.

Just sayin’

Cheers,
Carolyn
(Player since 2003)
 All Eternity
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12/13/2021 1:16:01 PM reply with quote send message to All Eternity Object to Post

quote
posted by Carolyn
In defence of some players whose intents aren’t to purposely ruin it for players hoping to campaign their lower SOP ShowDog dogs…

I am sure there are some players, myself included, who enter a dog under a judge they prefer, or who prefers dogs with their dog’s qualities, and don’t check the SOPs of the other dogs already entered. This can very easily be the case with a judge that prefers the entries be owner handled.

Just sayin’

Cheers,
Carolyn
(Player since 2003)

This person will remove their dogs from other shows to put them in the one I have a couple entries (two entries minimum as I have been testing this out) so this isn't the case. Not sure how that is not deliberately ruining a show.
 All Eternity
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12/13/2021 2:23:51 PM reply with quote send message to All Eternity Object to Post

quote
posted by Orsodoro
I am more than positive BarStar has had their fair share of dogs in the ring that don't show well or finish... and likely the majority of players on the game.

There's not a lot one can do about non-team players on the game. There are limitations to the game for sure such as someone wanting to show their lower sop dogs and a higher sop being entered by someone else and that ruining gameplay for the one kennel. I've dealt with it on more than one occasion lol since 2009 and it's literally just part of the game. It's why I have quit breeds in the past as the stress is just not worth it, especially on a thing like a game that is supposed to "add" to quality of life not detract from it.

I've met a few ridiculous players on the game as well. They are strangers and it's not worth getting too P'd off at unknown people who don't care about you.


I do understand what you're saying, but what is happening isn't just bad luck or poorly bred dogs, it's on purpose. It's the delusional reasons behind their actions that I want to understand.

I know they want me to quit but I don't know why; they said it to me and that they have ran off other people before too.. It doesn't get any clearer than that and there is no 'innocent entering without checking other entries' with this. I enter after they do. I don't understand why others defend that either when I have mentioned this before.

I have been testing this by entering at least two dogs in one show (and no other shows) after the others have entered their dogs. I am on a different time zone which gives an advantage for this. When I check back later when I'm in-between embalmings (I'm a Mortician), 9/10 times those other dogs will be withdrawn from their shows and put into the single show I entered. I will laugh if anyone denies that type of action is not on purpose. They have enough dogs for majors. They don't need mine. I have no problem doing the same and moving my dogs to a different show. If it's okay for them, it's okay for everyone.

I always believed in breeding better dogs and hold those genetics to advance and compete. A dog should be able to take winners/group/BIS/etc without a handler in my opinion. However, I do not believe in making it difficult for other players to enjoy the game or run them out. If folks don't want to work together/share/etc, that's their right, but they still do not have to be nasty about it.

My point isn't about not winning, my point is the deliberate bullying shouldn't be kept quiet and a poor attempt to understand why this is done and why people defend it.
 Clwyd Cockers
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12/13/2021 6:34:19 PM reply with quote send message to Clwyd Cockers Object to Post

quote
posted by All Eternity
LOL I just tried to 'like' your posts as if we were on social media hahahaha.
I lost count how many times I wanted to Like a post
 BarStar
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12/13/2021 11:01:54 PM reply with quote send message to BarStar Object to Post

quote
posted by Orsodoro
I am more than positive BarStar has had their fair share of dogs in the ring that don't show well or finish... and likely the majority of players on the game.

Haven't We all had duds? lol.

Will
 All Eternity
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12/13/2021 11:55:08 PM reply with quote send message to All Eternity Object to Post

quote
posted by BarStar
quote
posted by Orsodoro
I am more than positive BarStar has had their fair share of dogs in the ring that don't show well or finish... and likely the majority of players on the game.

Haven't We all had duds? lol.

Will

I have a love for my duds lol. Had one that was so terrible I kept her because of that reason, it made me laugh. <3 NEVER got a placement at all, unless she was the only one in the breed that day LMAO. She was one of my Dobermans long long ago.

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The first obedience title is a CD, or "Companion Dog", which is earned through competition in the Novice obedience class.