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 PPvallhunds
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7/4/2013 7:04:36 PM reply with quote send message to PPvallhunds Object to Post

quote
posted by rhondacline
Instead of the ability to purchase SD money, I would prefer to see a "bonus" system implemented; bonuses awarded based on achievement.

X amount for finishing a champion - or if you prefer x amount for finishing every X champions.

X amount for a GCh or again, maybe people would prefer x amount for finishing X grand champions.

X amount for completing an obedience title
(which might also encourage more participation in obedience?)

X amount for an AOM

I like this idea, it rewards players for putting the effort in and give them extra money
 PPvallhunds
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7/4/2013 7:24:29 PM reply with quote send message to PPvallhunds Object to Post

quote
posted by Canyon View Kennels
With all do respect, how would it effect you if I decided to purchase SD funds?
it effects others like this.

You buy SD money, you can now buy more of the good dogs advailble, breed more litters so more pups born = more chance of getting good ones. You can buy lots of extra sessions to train all your new good pups, you entre them in shows and of course do well as there good, your dogs quality improves quicker as you breeding so often, you end up with the best dogs in your breed.

This affects others as there are less quality dogs for them to buy, they cant breed as often so less chance of getting good pups, when they do get one and session it the shows are full and handlers taken by the players who can now afford to show more so its harder for them to finish there dogs. They soon find them selves with non competitive dogs as the players who brought money can breed more so have increased there dogs quality faster then the players who breed less to stay out of dept. Due to this they cant sell any dogs and no one wants there studs. They are forced to start buying and using studs more then normal to try to keep up which eats into there money, soon they find them selves in dept and unable to play properly.
the playes who don't/cant buy money would find it hard or impossible to compeat with the players who do.

yes this is an extream example, some people who buy sd money would proberly use it to sponser shows and buy,stud from other people but many would just use it to suite them selves which would negatively effect other users and as a result negatively effect the game as a whole.

Maby make the kennel reset an option for kennels in dept.

in all of my kennels I don't often get sales and studs used, one kennel I never get sales/studs but im not in dept in any of them as Ive managed my kennels well.
 Rokkstar
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7/4/2013 7:54:02 PM reply with quote send message to Rokkstar Object to Post

I voted yes, I have an upgraded account but have not been here for a while.. and am down to $200 in the bank. I might be able to get myself restarted if there were a system like this in place!
Right now it looks near impossible!
 Degree
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7/4/2013 8:03:13 PM reply with quote send message to Degree Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

quote
posted by Rokkstar
I voted yes, I have an upgraded account but have not been here for a while.. and am down to $200 in the bank. I might be able to get myself restarted if there were a system like this in place!
Right now it looks near impossible!

Weren't you already told you can get your account reset?

ETA: I came back to play in April and I'm quite far from debt. It can be done. And I didn't have to buy it.

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Last edited by Degree on 7/4/2013 8:10:32 PM
 Rokkstar
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7/4/2013 8:21:36 PM reply with quote send message to Rokkstar Object to Post

I have asked to have my account reset by the contact us page, but there is really no information anywhere on how you are supposed to go about this.
 Degree
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7/4/2013 8:27:38 PM reply with quote send message to Degree Object to Post

quote
posted by Rokkstar
I have asked to have my account reset by the contact us page, but there is really no information anywhere on how you are supposed to go about this.
www.showdog.com/forum/read.aspx?id=206258

One Google search.
 Canyon View Kennels
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7/4/2013 8:57:37 PM reply with quote send message to Canyon View Kennels Object to Post

quote
posted by PPvallhunds
quote
posted by Canyon View Kennels
With all do respect, how would it effect you if I decided to purchase SD funds?

it effects others like this.

You buy SD money, you can now buy more of the good dogs advailble, breed more litters so more pups born = more chance of getting good ones. You can buy lots of extra sessions to train all your new good pups, you entre them in shows and of course do well as there good, your dogs quality improves quicker as you breeding so often, you end up with the best dogs in your breed.

This affects others as there are less quality dogs for them to buy, they cant breed as often so less chance of getting good pups, when they do get one and session it the shows are full and handlers taken by the players who can now afford to show more so its harder for them to finish there dogs. They soon find them selves with non competitive dogs as the players who brought money can breed more so have increased there dogs quality faster then the players who breed less to stay out of dept. Due to this they cant sell any dogs and no one wants there studs. They are forced to start buying and using studs more then normal to try to keep up which eats into there money, soon they find them selves in dept and unable to play properly.
the playes who don't/cant buy money would find it hard or impossible to compeat with the players who do.

yes this is an extream example, some people who buy sd money would proberly use it to sponser shows and buy,stud from other people but many would just use it to suite them selves which would negatively effect other users and as a result negatively effect the game as a whole.

Maby make the kennel reset an option for kennels in dept.

in all of my kennels I don't often get sales and studs used, one kennel I never get sales/studs but im not in dept in any of them as Ive managed my kennels well.
Again, I don't see any negatives. The negatives here are hypothetical. Jeff has his eyes open with people that abuse selling dogs through their own kennels, I think it's negligent to believe he wouldn't have some safe guards for abusers, and in my opinion it doesn't speak highly of regular players to think they'd abuse such a feature. You can only have so many pregnant bitches at a time and have the waiting period, so doubt Jeff would be changing that. I see more people opening a second or third kennel and helping struggling breeds, bettering dogs and new lines from source breeders helping to improve breeds. I wouldn't want any of my kennels reset for I worked hard in the past on them and would like the opportunity to reclaim dogs. A lot of what you stated can be done by people without SD funds by "old" timers that know the in's and outs of the game and I think the new blood that have a real, true interest have bankrupted themselves by trial and error. By the time they truly understand, their bankrupt and leave and take the opportunities of more majors and new lines and dogs. With this option, they could right the ship and continue. Again, I vote yes.
 ShadowRun Kennel
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7/4/2013 9:20:24 PM reply with quote send message to ShadowRun Kennel Object to Post

Canyon View Kennels just so you are aware your "positives" are also hypothetical. So I wouldn't go implying that other peoples opinions are invalid because they are "hypothetical". The whole thread is hypothetical.

Also your point about the "old timers" knowing the game better, etc. There aren't that many ins and outs of SD, the rules are laid out plain and simple for everyone. They aren't complicated. We all started somewhere and were all new at one time. I don't think the old timers have any better shot at this game that the people who join next week. There are people in some of my breeds that have just joined and have done amazingly well, why?, I believe because they took the time to read the rules and understand the game before plowing blindly ahead. And your kennel was signed up in 2008, which makes you an "old timer" too, so by your logic you should have no need to purchase SD money, because you should know the ins and outs by now.

I would also wonder if you wouldn't think that it would affect your enjoyment of the game if the top kennel in your breed decided to buy SD money and because of their new endless supply of SD money (from purchase) they decide to operate a closed kennel, offering no sales and no studs to public. They have plenty of money to breed, show, etc., you can't catch up with them, they enter all the shows with there dogs, take the handlers, because again, they don't have to worry about finances. It becomes hard for you to catch up with them, compete with them because you can't afford to purchase SD money. Then will you start complaining about them being a "super" kennel?

The above is another hypothetical scenario of course, but one I think likely would happen if the purchasing of SD money is made available.
 Canyon View Kennels
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7/4/2013 9:57:17 PM reply with quote send message to Canyon View Kennels Object to Post

this post has been edited 4 time(s)

quote
posted by ShadowRun Kennel
Canyon View Kennels just so you are aware your "positives" are also hypothetical. So I wouldn't go implying that other peoples opinions are invalid because they are "hypothetical". The whole thread is hypothetical.

Of course it is, but how many are crying bout the hypothetical negative vs. the positives?

And your kennel was signed up in 2008, which makes you an "old timer" too, so by your logic you should have no need to purchase SD money, because you should know the ins and outs by now.

Never said I did or didn't, did I?

I would also wonder if you wouldn't think that it would affect your enjoyment of the game if the top kennel in your breed decided to buy SD money and because of their new endless supply of SD money (from purchase) they decide to operate a closed kennel, offering no sales and no studs to public. They have plenty of money to breed, show, etc., you can't catch up with them, they enter all the shows with there dogs, take the handlers, because again, they don't have to worry about finances. It becomes hard for you to catch up with them, compete with them because you can't afford to purchase SD money. Then will you start complaining about them being a "super" kennel?

Wouldn't bother me a bit. If they want to spend the money, good for them. I also haven't spend money on extra kennels, while I'm sure others have and have an extra advantage by keeping more higher quality dogs or more source dogs I'm pleased that it brings more quality dogs to infuse in my kennel and for newer users instead of sub par dogs. I don't have a need to have the #1 kennel in any breed, perhaps that's the real root of the problem, people are worried about their standing in their breed or on the whole site?

I'd also like to add, how many times have we seen in the banners forum, "running low on money, need to make some." SO again, banner makers have an extra advantage by selling banner and manipulations. I have never done so, I don't have the time or talent. Are you purposing we do away with that source of income?


The above is another hypothetical scenario of course, but one I think likely would happen if the purchasing of SD money is made available.
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Last edited by Canyon View Kennels on 7/5/2013 3:19:00 AM
 Degree
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7/4/2013 10:00:56 PM reply with quote send message to Degree Object to Post

ShadowRun's post is totally plausible.

You cannot sugarcoat the fact that there will be advantages that would eventually corrupt the system. This would occur no matter how helpful something like this would be to the struggling kennels. Super kennels are not fun to play with or against as they have seemingly unlimited resources.

Canyon View, you state:

"I'm pleased that it brings more quality dogs to infuse in my kennel and for newer users instead of sub par dogs."

Closed kennels really don't allow you to use their "quality" studs or buy their "quality" puppies and there are no rules that will make them. So I think you are missing the point on that.
 Canyon View Kennels
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7/4/2013 10:02:29 PM reply with quote send message to Canyon View Kennels Object to Post

this post has been edited 3 time(s)

There are several kennels on here that don't allow the use of their dogs now.. Some from people that have posted on here against SD funds. That is a problem now, makes no difference to me, they're able to do as they like. It's not just from studs, but sales. If they do neither, again, it already happens here, not going to change. Again, I'm sure Jeff would have some safe guards.

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Last edited by Canyon View Kennels on 7/4/2013 10:11:27 PM
 Canyon View Kennels
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7/4/2013 10:03:11 PM reply with quote send message to Canyon View Kennels Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

?

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Last edited by Canyon View Kennels on 7/4/2013 10:05:49 PM
 Canyon View Kennels
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7/4/2013 10:03:38 PM reply with quote send message to Canyon View Kennels Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

no clue why it reposted so many times...

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Last edited by Canyon View Kennels on 7/4/2013 10:05:35 PM
 GaylanStudio9
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7/4/2013 11:07:04 PM reply with quote send message to GaylanStudio9 Object to Post

I voted "no" and do not expect to really change my mind.

I would agree to a limited version - if someone is bankrupt perhaps - with serious limits on the amount purchased, current balance, and frequency.

Now I know there is a difference in "legal" and "illegal" here but it really seems not that different to transferring dogs at inflated prices between kennels. Open a second kennel, sell a couple of dogs, let the new (or old) kennel sit and accumulate funds, and do it again. This is illegal and the risk of getting caught keeps a lid on it. It's viewed as cheating because it gives an unfair, unearned advantage.

 Lilliput
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7/4/2013 11:09:33 PM reply with quote send message to Lilliput Object to Post

quote
posted by Leidenschaftlich
Who the hell is going to pay to play this game and then not play it because you can't pay for anything?


You CAN play it, you just play it within the confines of your budget which has always been the point. Maybe you only show a few of your best dogs, maybe you keep fewer dogs in your kennel, maybe you feed Old Boy to your studs, maybe you breed fewer litters.

Money has always been a variable here, and it's part of the point. If the point was too breed as many litters as possible, show as much as possible, and keep as many dogs as possible, we wouldn't have limits on any of those things, and we wouldn't worry about salary.

Playing within your means, has always been part of the game and the strategy.
 Everkai
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7/4/2013 11:17:51 PM reply with quote send message to Everkai Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

Fine, add this feature, I'm sure all of you that voted yes will realize how crappy the economy will probably become. I know for certain I would become a closed kennel, just because I can; and more so to prove a point.
 Lilliput
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7/4/2013 11:18:28 PM reply with quote send message to Lilliput Object to Post

The "Old Timers" thing is what I actually see as a positive in this game- that you can learn to do well at it over time, and there are so many levels of play and there's always more to learn. I've been here since '04, and there are STILL things I don't know about SD. And I agree with the above as well- I've sene new players come in, and blow the competition out of the water because they play methodically and intelligently.

As far as the ability to purchase new kennels, you are mistaken, the rules state that kennels may NOT be run together. If you have 2 kennels in a breed, it is against the rules to use one kennel just for stashing extra good dogs or running the two as a cooperative. By the book, the kennels must be run completely separately as if run by strangers. And since achievement is by kennel rather than by user, you don't really gain much that way.

As far as extra kennel slots- this is self limiting. You are only allowed to buy 5 of them. And you have to figure out how to keep those dogs with the funds provided.

If we allow the purchasing of money, I can easily see kennels going into debt repeatedly because they know they will be able to keep buying their way back out. It takes away the one big variable in the game- money.
 House of Wolves Kennel
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7/5/2013 12:28:57 AM reply with quote send message to House of Wolves Kennel Object to Post

quote
posted by PPvallhunds
quote
posted by rhondacline
Instead of the ability to purchase SD money, I would prefer to see a "bonus" system implemented; bonuses awarded based on achievement.

X amount for finishing a champion - or if you prefer x amount for finishing every X champions.

X amount for a GCh or again, maybe people would prefer x amount for finishing X grand champions.

X amount for completing an obedience title
(which might also encourage more participation in obedience?)

X amount for an AOM

I like this idea, it rewards players for putting the effort in and give them extra money

My only problem with this is that the rare breeds rarely if ever have a CH these days, and it can take years for a Source Breeder to get to this stage. Yes, the Obedience titles are possible but the CH, GCH, AOM may not be.

If something could be implemented that would also fairly reward those people for their achievements then I'd totally be for this system.
 GaylanStudio9
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7/5/2013 11:54:11 AM reply with quote send message to GaylanStudio9 Object to Post

How about awarding a monthly (SD year) financial award for breed accomplishments - 1st to 10th in breed perhaps?
 zealous
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7/5/2013 5:16:51 PM reply with quote send message to zealous Object to Post

i,d support adding the sd cash purchase concept while keeping the strategy element in this game.perhaps it could be given a trial for 6 months.

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Did you know?
There are about 900 breeds of sheep in the world.
Did you know?
A specialty show may be regional or national. A "Best in Show" win at a national specialty show is tremendously prestigious, indicating that the winning dog or bitch triumphed at a contest which attracted entries from the most serious fanciers of that breed in the country or continent. Some specialty shows attract international entries.
Did you know?
A specialty show is a dog show which reviews a single breed, unlike other dog shows, particularly conformation shows, which are generally referred to as "all-breed" because they are open to all breeds recognized by the sponsoring kennel club.