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West Highland White Terriers are white. No other colors are permissible.

Pomeranians:

A Locus:
a(s) - sable
a(t) - tan markings
a(w) - "silver" sable

B locus:
B - no change
b - brown pigment

C locus:
here I fudge some, bc I cannot find anything that actually explains how this is inherited
c(w) - white (if homozygous) otherwise "cream" if thed og would have been red or orange.

D locus:
D - no change
d - diluted black pigment

E locus:
E - no change
e - "orange" or red

S locus:
S - solid colored
s(p) - parti colored

K locus:
K(b) - black (or solid)
k(y) - normal
k(br) - brindle

Combinations:
This is a quick & dirty version but should be good enough to work with.

a(s)a(s)B*C*D*k(y)k(y)S* orange sable
a(s)a(t)B*C*D*k(y)k(y)S* orange sable
a(t)a(t)B*C*D*k(y)k(y)S* black & tan
a(s)a(w)B*C*D*k(y)k(y)S* cream sable
a(w)a(w)B*C*D*k(y)k(y)S* wolf sable
a(w)a(t)B*C*D*k(y)k(y)S* black & silver

a(s)a(s)bbC*D*k(y)k(y)S* chocolate sable
a(s)a(t)bbC*D*k(y)k(y)S* chocolate sable
a(t)a(t)bbC*D*k(y)k(y)S* chocolate & tan
a(s)a(w)bbC*D*k(y)k(y)S* chocolate cream sable
a(w)a(w)bbC*D*k(y)k(y)S* chocolate wolf sable
a(w)a(t)bbC*D*k(y)k(y)S* chocolate & silver

a(s)a(s)B*C*ddk(y)k(y)S* blue sable
a(s)a(t)B*C*ddk(y)k(y)S* blue sable
a(t)a(t)B*C*ddk(y)k(y)S* blue & tan
a(s)a(w)B*C*ddk(y)k(y)S* cream sable
a(w)a(w)B*C*ddk(y)k(y)S* wolf sable
a(w)a(t)B*C*ddk(y)k(y)S* blue & silver

a(s)a(s)bbC*ddk(y)k(y)S* lavendar sable
a(s)a(t)bbC*ddk(y)k(y)S* lavendar sable
a(t)a(t)bbC*ddk(y)k(y)S* lavendar & tan
a(s)a(w)bbC*ddk(y)k(y)S* cream sable
a(w)a(w)bbC*ddk(y)k(y)S* wolf sable
a(w)a(t)bbC*ddk(y)k(y)S* lavendar & silver

a(s)a(s)B*C*D*K(b)*S* black
a(s)a(t)B*C*D*K(b)*S* black
a(t)a(t)B*C*D*K(b)*S* black
a(s)a(w)B*C*D*K(b)*S* black
a(w)a(w)B*C*D*K(b)*S* black
a(w)a(t)B*C*D*K(b)*S* black

a(s)a(s)bbC*D*K(b)*S* chocolate
a(s)a(t)bbC*D*K(b)*S* chocolate
a(t)a(t)bbC*D*K(b)*S* chocolate
a(s)a(w)bbC*D*K(b)*S* chocolate
a(w)a(w)bbC*D*K(b)*S* chocolate
a(w)a(t)bbC*D*K(b)*S* chocolate

a(s)a(s)B*C*ddK(b)*S* blue
a(s)a(t)B*C*ddK(b)*S* blue
a(t)a(t)B*C*ddK(b)*S* blue
a(s)a(w)B*C*ddK(b)*S* blue
a(w)a(w)B*C*ddK(b)*S* blue
a(w)a(t)B*C*ddK(b)*S* blue

a(s)a(s)bbC*ddK(b)*S* lavendar
a(s)a(t)bbC*ddK(b)*S* lavendar
a(t)a(t)bbC*ddK(b)*S* lavendar
a(s)a(w)bbC*ddK(b)*S* lavendar
a(w)a(w)bbC*ddK(b)*S* lavendar
a(w)a(t)bbC*ddK(b)*S* lavendar

Any of the above with K(br)K(br) or K(br)k(y) would be color name + "brindle"

Any of the above with ee instead of E* would be:
orange, unless:
they are also bb in which case they would be "beaver"
they are also dd in which case they would be "cream"
they are bbdd in which case they would be "cream"
they are also a(w)a(w) in which case they would be "cream"

Any of the above with c(w)c(w) instead of C* would be white.
Any of the above with s(p)s(p) would be color name + parti color
any of the above with Ss(p) would be color name + "mismark" or "with white markings"

If anyone can help us with shih tzus, that would be great. This is what we have so far, but it looks like there are going to be hundreds of different combinations that are going to take hours to hammer out. Any suggestion on how to simplify?
www.showdog.com/login/Breeds/philboard_read.aspx?id=110212

quote

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posted by Marchen Shih Tzus
If anyone can help us with shih tzus, that would be great. This is what we have so far, but it looks like there are going to be hundreds of different combinations that are going to take hours to hammer out. Any suggestion on how to simplify?
www.showdog.com/login/Breeds/philboard_read.aspx?id=110212

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Shihs are almost as complicated as Havs...but not quite

Check out the Hav forum....this is what I did....when you have over 100 possiblities for just solid black, you cant fesably write out EVERY possiblity for every color, so this is what I did

the last post is the most....condesed. Those above it(before the comments) show the basis from which they are made.

Natasha

Ok that is what I did, I put the possible combinations in brackets. But is this what Jeff is wanting? Or does he want us to list all the combinations out?

Could somebody help us with Danes? I'm not sure how this color thing works, but I'd really love to have color and be able to learn.

Thanks,
~Peace

quote

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posted by Peace Kennels
Could somebody help us with Danes? I'm not sure how this color thing works, but I'd really love to have color and be able to learn.

Thanks,
~Peace

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I may be able to help you out. I'll post in your breed forum in a bit.

Thanks Gotisch!


~Peace

Here is the post the golden breeders came up with. (I'm in that breed as well. )

www.showdog.com/login/Breeds/philboard_read.aspx?id=110122


~Peace

To further clarify West Highland White Terriers:

What causes the white in Westies is:

Locus C:
ce extreme dilution

Locus E:
e blocks black and brown

ceceee

Those are the only genes that matter for westies. All other genes are irrelevant. All Westies will have these genes.

***This was taken off of the Staffie Bull forum***
Alright here is the list. I'll email admin and see what they think.

Red:
DD/ee/kk
Ddr/ee/kk
Dd/ee/kk


Red with black mask:
DD/EE/kk
DD/Ee/kk
Ddr/EE/kk
Ddr/Ee/kk
Dd/EE/kk
Dd/Ee/kk

Red brindle:
DD/ee/KbKb
DD/ee/Kbk
Ddr/ee/KbKb
Ddr/ee/Kbk
Dd/ee/KbKb
Dd/ee/Kbk

Red brindle with black mask:
DD/EE/KbKb
DD/EE/Kbk
DD/Ee/KbKb
DD/Ee/Kbk
Ddr/EE/KbKb
Ddr/EE/Kbk
Ddr/Ee/KbKb
Ddr/Ee/Kbk
Dd/EE/KbKb
Dd/EE/Kbk
Dd/Ee/KbKb
Dd/Ee/Kbk

Fawn:
drdr/ee/kk
drd/ee/kk

Fawn with black mask:
drdr/EE/kk
drdr/Ee/kk
drd/EE/kk
drd/Ee/kk

Fawn brindle:
drdr/ee/KbKb
drdr/ee/kbk
drd/ee/KbKb
drd/ee/Kbk

Fawn brindle with black mask:
drdr/EE/KbKb
drdr/EE/Kbk
drdr/Ee/KbKb
drdr/Ee/Kbk
drd/EE/KbKb
drd/EE/Kbk
drd/Ee/KbKb
drd/Ee/Kbk

Blue fawn:
dd/ee/kk

Blue fawn with blue mask:
dd/EE/kk
dd/Ee/kk

Blue brindle:
dd/ee/KbKb
dd/ee/Kbk

Blue brindle with blue mask:
dd/EE/KbKb
dd/EE/Kbk
dd/Ee/KbKb
dd/Ee/Kbk

Blue (includes blue with blue mask):
dd/EE/KK
dd/EE/KKb
dd/EE/Kk
dd/Ee/KK
dd/Ee/KKb
dd/Ee/Kk
dd/ee/KK
dd/ee/KKb
dd/ee/Kk

Black (includes black with black mask):
DD/EE/KK
DD/EE/KKb
DD/EE/Kk
DD/Ee/KK
DD/Ee/KKb
DD/Ee/Kk
DD/ee/KK
DD/ee/KKb
DD/ee/Kk
Ddr/EE/KK
Ddr/EE/KKb
Ddr/EE/Kk
Ddr/Ee/KK
Ddr/Ee/KKb
Ddr/Ee/Kk
Ddr/ee/KK
Ddr/ee/KKb
Ddr/ee/Kk
Dd/EE/KK
Dd/EE/KKb
Dd/EE/Kk
Dd/Ee/KK
Dd/Ee/KKb
Dd/Ee/Kk
Dd/ee/KK
Dd/ee/KKb
Dd/ee/Kk
drdr/EE/KK
drdr/EE/KKb
drdr/EE/Kk
drdr/Ee/KK
drdr/Ee/KKb
drdr/Ee/Kk
drdr/ee/KK
drdr/ee/KKb
drdr/ee/Kk
drd/EE/KK
drd/EE/KKb
drd/EE/Kk
drd/Ee/KK
drd/Ee/KKb
drd/Ee/Kk
drd/ee/KK
drd/ee/KKb
drd/ee/Kk

So that is all the color I've gotten to. If we are going to have black and tan markings I don't think those would be too hard to add, but I'd have to think about liver... that one might be a little harder. And of course the white can just go over any of the above colors.

Straightedge Kennel
***end of post off of Staffie Bull forum***



This is what I did with the Staffie Bulls...

***disclaimer, this is NOT sientific... I had to make a bunch of stuff up to make this work, please do not reply to this saying suchandsuch isn't scientifically accurate, I already know that.***

The way this works is all dogs start off with a red coat, there are three loci (four if you count the white factor) that alter the base red.

The first locus has the alleles... D/dr/d
D= no dilution
dr= dilution of only red hairs
d= dilution of red and black hairs
(note these are in decending order of dominance)

The second locus has the alleles... E/e
E= black mask is present
e= no black mask

The third locus has the alleles... K/Kb/k
K= heavy brindling (appearing solid black)
Kb= classic brindling (black stripes)
k= no brindling (red coat is unbroken by black)

the "dr" gene (drdr or drd) changes the visible red coat to fawn, and the "d" gene (dd) changes the visible red coat to fawn and the visible black coat to blue).

White is just a masking gene that can be put over all the above genes.
there are usually thought to be for alleles at this loci (S/Si/Sp/Sw).
so the possible combinations are
SS
SSi
SSp
SSw
SiSi
SiSp
SiSw
SpSp
SpSw
SwSw

You can allocate a specific percentage of white coverage for each and every one of these combinations or you can just have Solid/ Irish spotted/ Peibald/ and all white dogs depending on the most dominant gene in the pair (S being most dominant Sw being the least dominant).

A basic run down of the genetic breeding engine with these genes is a solid red(fawn) X red(fawn) would never produce a brindle or black(blue). The only way to produce a black(blue) dog is to have at least one black(blue) parent. Two brindle dogs could produce more brindle or red(fawn) but not black(blue). And if there is at least one black parent you could have solid red(fawn), brindles or black.

Something like this could be used for other breeds (like amStaffs). And black and tan could be added fairly easily if you want DQ colors as well).

Straightedge Kennel

ps the full discussion on Staffie Bull colors is in the staffie Bull forum.

Edit to Add: Sorry, I did not see your disclaimer about making up the loci! haha If you want a hand translating that into correct loci, just let me know. If you don't want a hand, disregard the remainder of this message

I think there may be a misunderstanding with the loci.

A dog that is e/e cannot produce any black/brown pigment, so it cannot be fawn, brindle, or have a mask. The Extension locus (E locus) is encoded by the Melanocortin 1 Receptor (MC1R) gene. The e mutation is a deletion of G residue 771, causing a frameshift and a premature stop codon. Rendering the MC1R receptor non-functional. As such, alpha-MSH cannot bind to the receptor so the cell is not signaled to produce eumelanin (black/brown pigment). A e/e dog has two copies of the mutated gene so no functional receptors, hence does not have the ability to produce black hair pigment.

Fawn is controlled by the Agouti locus, with the dominant allele ay. A fawn dog would be ky/ky E/_ ay/_ for fawn without mask, or ky/ky EM/_ ay/_ for fawn with mask.

Brindle is controlled by the middle dominant allele at the K locus, kbr. A brindle dog would be kbr/_ E(or EM)/_ ay/_.

Any dog with a mask has its base color controlled by the Agouti locus. So is therefore either is either ky/ky, kbr/kbr, or kbr/ky at the K locus, EM/_ at the E locus and ay/_ at the Agouti locus.

quote

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posted by Straightedge
[***disclaimer, this is NOT sientific... I had to make a bunch of stuff up to make this work, please do not reply to this saying suchandsuch isn't scientifically accurate, I already know that.***

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ShelGrace if you are responding to my post on staffie bulls please note the above excerpt from my original post.

Thank you

Straightedge Kennel

ETA... just saw your ETA, The problem I had was in keeping most of the colors you see in staffies without going overboard on the number of combinations. I wanted to find something that would mirror real life breeding (ie. if you breed two solid fawn dogs what sort of puppies can you get etc). And the current genetic models (the scientific ones) where just way too complicated. I knew I wanted to stay away from the whole agouti thing all together. Plus the fact that there are several different "facts" about coat genetics.
It was like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.. In the end I used a mallet

I think you were writing your last post as I was editing mine I missed your disclaimer the first read through the thread but caught it the second read (after I had posted already).

haha I hear ya. I think your logic in the way you coded things is really good. But unfortunately, with the bully breeds you just can't get away from the Agouti thing or the K thing. Their colors just depend too much on it.

The colors that you listed, are they the main colors for the breed? Or are there missing ones? I can try to tackle it, shouldn't take too long.

Can Staffies be brown? What about black and tan?

Red, fawn, white, black or blue, or any of these colors with white. Any shade of brindle or any shade of brindle with white. Black-and-tan or liver color to be disqualified.

This is what I got off of the AKC website. I wasn't dealing with the black and tan or liver (because they are DQ in real life) also If you have a breed that is know to have the dilution gene then you would need the dilution for black and tan (blue and tan) and liver (cream or silver), and I didn't think the other breeders would want blue and tan dogs (or silvers).

I don't see why I "have" to have the agouti factor in something like this game. Making the base coat Red and having mask as it's own separate (made up) loci made it superfluous (at least for something like this game is concerned).

Straightedge Kennel

How does this look for Staffies? The coat colors I have accounted for include, red with black nose, red with blue nose, fawn without mask, fawn with blue mask, fawn with black mask, brindle without mask, brindle with mask, blue brindle without mask, blue brindle with mask, blue, and black. All with or without spotting.

Did I miss any?

For the purposes here, all dogs are fixed at ay/ay for the A locus.

Genes of note:
K (alleles are K, kbr, ky)
E (alleles are EM, E, e)
D (alleles are D, d)

Red
K/K e/e D/D (black nose)
K/kbr e/e D/D (black nose)
K/ky e/e D/D (black nose)
kbr/kbr e/e D/D (black nose)
kbr/ky e/e D/D (black nose)
ky/ky e/e D/D (black nose)
K/K e/e D/d (black nose)
K/kbr e/e D/d (black nose)
K/ky e/e D/d (black nose)
kbr/kbr e/e D/d (black nose)
kbr/ky e/e D/d (black nose)
ky/ky e/e D/d (black nose)
K/K e/e d/d (blue nose)
K/kbr e/e d/d (blue nose)
K/ky e/e d/d (blue nose)
kbr/kbr e/e d/d (blue nose)
kbr/ky e/e d/d (blue nose)
ky/ky e/e d/d (blue nose)


Fawn
ky/ky EM/EM D/D (black mask)
ky/ky EM/E D/D (black mask)
ky/ky EM/e D/D (black mask)
ky/ky E/E D/D (no mask, black nose)
ky/ky E/e D/D (no mask, black nose)
ky/ky EM/EM D/d (black mask)
ky/ky EM/E D/d (black mask)
ky/ky EM/e D/d (black mask)
ky/ky E/E D/d (no mask, black nose)
ky/ky E/e D/d (no mask, black nose)
ky/ky EM/EM d/d (blue mask)
ky/ky EM/E d/d (blue mask)
ky/ky EM/e d/d (blue mask)
ky/ky E/E d/d (no mask, blue nose)
ky/ky E/e d/d (no mask, blue nose)

Brindle
kbr/kbr EM/EM D/D (fawn brindle with black mask)
kbr/kbr EM/E D/D (fawn brindle with black mask)
kbr/kbr EM/e D/D (fawn brindle with black mask)
kbr/kbr E/E D/D (fawn brindle with no mask)
kbr/kbr E/e D/D (fawn brindle with no mask)
kbr/kbr EM/EM D/d (fawn brindle with black mask)
kbr/kbr EM/E D/d (fawn brindle with black mask)
kbr/kbr EM/e D/d (fawn brindle with black mask)
kbr/kbr E/E D/d (fawn brindle with no mask)
kbr/kbr E/e D/d (fawn brindle with no mask)
kbr/kbr EM/EM d/d (blue fawn brindle with blue mask)
kbr/kbr EM/E d/d (blue fawn brindle with blue mask)
kbr/kbr EM/e d/d (blue fawn brindle with blue mask)
kbr/kbr E/E d/d (blue fawn brindle no mask)
kbr/kbr E/e d/d (blue fawn brindle no mask)
kbr/ky EM/EM D/D (fawn brindle with black mask)
kbr/ky EM/E D/D (fawn brindle with black mask)
kbr/ky EM/e D/D (fawn brindle with black mask)
kbr/ky E/E D/D (fawn brindle with no mask)
kbr/ky E/e D/D (fawn brindle with no mask)
kbr/ky EM/EM D/d (fawn brindle with black mask)
kbr/ky EM/E D/d (fawn brindle with black mask)
kbr/ky EM/e D/d (fawn brindle with black mask)
kbr/ky E/E D/d (fawn brindle with no mask)
kbr/ky E/e D/d (fawn brindle with no mask)
kbr/ky EM/EM d/d (fawn brindle with no mask)
kbr/ky EM/E d/d (blue fawn brindle with blue mask)
kbr/ky EM/e d/d (blue fawn brindle with blue mask)
kbr/ky E/E d/d (blue fawn brindle no mask)
kbr/ky E/e d/d (blue fawn brindle no mask)


Blue
K/K EM/EM/ d/d
K/K EM/E d/d
K/K EM/e d/d
K/K E/E d/d
K/K E/e d/d
K/ky EM/EM/ d/d
K/ky EM/E d/d
K/ky EM/e d/d
K/ky E/E d/d
K/ky E/e d/d
K/kbr EM/EM/ d/d
K/kbr EM/E d/d
K/kbr EM/e d/d
K/kbr E/E d/d
K/kbr E/e d/d

Black
K/K EM/EM/ D/D
K/K EM/E D/D
K/K EM/e D/D
K/K E/E D/D
K/K E/e D/D
K/ky EM/EM/ D/D
K/ky EM/E D/D
K/ky EM/e D/D
K/ky E/E D/D
K/ky E/e D/D
K/kbr EM/EM/ D/D
K/kbr EM/E D/D
K/kbr EM/e D/D
K/kbr E/E D/D
K/kbr E/e D/D
K/K EM/EM/ D/d
K/K EM/E D/d
K/K EM/e D/d
K/K E/E D/d
K/K E/e D/d
K/ky EM/EM/ D/d
K/ky EM/E D/d
K/ky EM/e D/d
K/ky E/E D/d
K/ky E/e D/d
K/kbr EM/EM/ D/d
K/kbr EM/E D/d
K/kbr EM/e D/d
K/kbr E/E D/d
K/kbr E/e D/d


White spotting can be applied to any of the above mentioned genotypes to make solid colored dogs (S), "tuxedo" markings (si), piebald (sp), or extreme white (sw).

Solid color
S/S
S/si
S/sp
S/sw

"Tuxedo" markings (also called Irish spotting)
si/si
si/sp
si/sw

Piebald
sp/sp
sp/sw

Extreme white (all white)
sw/sw

I was working on the genotype list, so my responses are out of order now

I agree that the actual terminology, in the case of a game like this, isn't necessary. But if I am understanding the coding correctly, I think Jeff was looking for the possible alleles that each breed has and what colors they would make so that he can sort of put it all into a set template instead of coding each breed separately. In that case, you would need to have the alleles given match the alleles that Jeff is looking for. So making up the loci, while it will work in theory, may not be able to be applied to the coding system in place.

I could be completely wrong, though. Wouldn't be the first time! haha

I don't see any red brindles in your list and I have never seen a red dog with a blue nose??? (I don't see what needs to be "fixed" with my list. What exactly do you see wrong with it?)

CrosstheLine
(Straightedge Kennel in disguise)

eta.. I didn't realize that Admin wanted the loci to be the same for all breeds. I think that might be a little difficult seeing as there is so much that is still unknown for dog coat genetics.

Liver and Lemon Pointers having self coloured noses and pigmentation, while Black and Orange have Black noses and pigmentation.