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Showdog.com Forum · Keeshond

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1/15/2015 6:57:03 PM reply with quote send message to Object to Post edit post

He would be 95.15% happy :)
 Gypsy Wind Kennels
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1/15/2015 7:18:34 PM reply with quote send message to Gypsy Wind Kennels Object to Post

Oh of course he would be. Cause, of course I can't get a dog with beautiful stats AND a decent SS. We simply cant have that. FMSDL....
 Gypsy Wind Kennels
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1/15/2015 7:18:58 PM reply with quote send message to Gypsy Wind Kennels Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

user wiped their message

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Last edited by Gypsy Wind Kennels on 1/15/2015 7:19:46 PM
 Analeyn
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1/15/2015 7:28:34 PM reply with quote send message to Analeyn Object to Post

I didn't post the link, Gypsy happy :)

Unlucky with the puppy having a low SS. There's no history of it in the lines either.

Analeyn
 
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1/15/2015 8:57:34 PM reply with quote send message to Object to Post edit post

Actually he's a great dog even still, 19ss isn't that bad, and it's within the show able bracket.

Also SS I've found is purely RNG and not based on any algorithms like the rest of the stats. People worry about it too much, having it in a line does not increase the incidence of low showshine pups popping out of the line. Trust me I've been experimenting with it for years, there is no predictable pattern for showeshine. I mostly ignore it in dog I plan to breed, and some of my best dogs ever had low showshine.

I went ahead and took the liberty of running him through my formula for you to calculate his potential: He came out 10.4 .6 over the average of 9.8 for the breed in contrast the 95.3 pup only came out 10 accounting for the showshine coefficient. He would come out 10.2-- still better. (though keep in mind that hidden factors, and judge preferences still come into play)

That means his potential falls into the excellent range, and he would be easy to finish. Might even have campaigning potential.

These kind of dogs can be full of surprises. Also, he will be a solid stud.

~Signed the mystery writer razz :p
 Analeyn
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1/15/2015 9:30:37 PM reply with quote send message to Analeyn Object to Post

I wasn't discounting the dog at all happy :) I have several dogs in my kennel with lower SS that are kept for their excellent breeding or show potential. I agree that SS isn't as crucial of a factor as it is made out to be.

Who are you, mystery writer? happy :)

Analeyn
 Small Dog Grove
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1/15/2015 9:44:00 PM reply with quote send message to Small Dog Grove Object to Post

I'm not familiar with the abbreviation RNG, could someone translate please?
 Winter Heart
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1/15/2015 9:51:06 PM reply with quote send message to Winter Heart Object to Post

Random number generator maybe? For what it's worth, the best thing to happen to my poodle kennel was a low show shine boy. In fact, he's closing in on a merit award. The sire of my 95.40 Kee girl is low SS too. happy :)
 
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1/15/2015 9:57:46 PM reply with quote send message to Object to Post edit post

My apologies, I'd forgotten that not everyone is polished up on the statistics lingo.

RNG stands for: Random Number Generator/generation.

That is too say the process of a range of numbers usually something like 1-1000 being selected at random by a program. Comon results in this case 20ss would be assigned the most numbers and therefore be the most likely to pop out, but other lesser desirable ss are also assigned a number that the program can select and it will do so regardless of how many generations of 20ss are behind a dog and with the same odds no less, making breeding for 20ss a fairly moot point. The good news is your unlikely to end up with any ss below 16.5 unless you breed a source dog in and widen the range. Most will range from 20 to 17.1 in a litter. This is what I have come to believe the process is for showshine.

Anyaleyn, I was actually talking to Gypsy since they wrote like it was the most horrible thing that could have happened. I can see how you thought I was talking to you though. I was merely stating some facts not trying to pick at anyone.

Also, there is a 99.9% chance that I am posting as anonymous on purpose to maintain an air of mystery. wink ;)

So yeah, not telling. razz :p
 Gypsy Wind Kennels
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1/16/2015 12:03:03 AM reply with quote send message to Gypsy Wind Kennels Object to Post

No, it's not the worst thing ever to happen. I was actually going to keep him for breeding. (Im just a bit frustrated at lagging behind is all on average SOP. Woulda been amazing if he HAD 20ss) After seeing all this, I'm debating showing him, but years of playing and habit ingrained "I dont show dogs under 20ss". I don't math. I cant say I understand the numbers 100%, but it's something to think on.

And I assumed mystery poster WAS Analeyn. Now I have no clue.

And Analeyn, I thought you were the one who did post a link, a few pages back in the thread, the last time I was bemoaning a reasonably promsing pup with low SS. If not, apologies.
 Aussiewolfsister
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1/16/2015 12:25:42 AM reply with quote send message to Aussiewolfsister Object to Post

this post has been edited 2 time(s)

I posted the link and it still works for me. Try it without the breed at the end. Then you just go in and choose the breed you want.

sopcalculator.zymichost.com/

By the way -- rotten luck with the SS - he is a lovely pup otherwise.

Update: Just tried to get to the home page and it fell in a hole. And I see that the link up above doesn't work either. Sorry about that. Don't know why I can still get in to the Keesie page. I don't know why the link I copied won't work.

While I have access, I am happy to calculate for anyone who needs it.


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Last edited by Aussiewolfsister on 1/16/2015 12:26:33 AM

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Last edited by Aussiewolfsister on 1/16/2015 12:32:15 AM
 Analeyn
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1/16/2015 2:22:30 AM reply with quote send message to Analeyn Object to Post

Don't worry, I wasn't offended at all (unnamed poster/Gypsy). And no, I'm not the unnamed poster happy :)

The method for finding the theoretical SOP is relatively simple!

Take the dog's actual Show Shine value and subtract it from 20

ie. 20 - 18.4 = 1.6

Divide the result of the above by 2

ie. 1.6 / 2 = 0.8

Add the result to the dog's actual SOP and you have your theoretical SOP.

ie.

www.showdog.com/dog.aspx?id=13635621

The above dog has a SS of 18.4

so 20 - 18.4 = 1.6

1.6 / 2 = 0.8

Actual SOP of 94.40 + 0.8 = 95.20 with a 20 Show Shine


Hope that helps happy :)

Analeyn
 Aussiewolfsister
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1/16/2015 2:28:41 AM reply with quote send message to Aussiewolfsister Object to Post

Reading all the posts on SS makes me wonder just what I have forever homed. Probably passed on some damn good breeding dogs.
 
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1/16/2015 3:33:19 AM reply with quote send message to Object to Post edit post

Hey, you posted the same equation that I already posted. It's a pretty common equation though.

Anyway, it takes seconds to punch into a calculator for those of you that don't math as opposed to having to enter all a dogs traits one by one in a Sop calculator which is a needlessly slow process.

Also, the likeness that you passed on dogs of exceptional quality is high if you were discounting immediately based on showeshine that is. You will find it doesn't matter. Why just today I bred a gorgeous bitch from my 17.2ss broodie two girls of exceptionally high SOP and potential, both with perfect showshine. The best I have bred since I've been back. My current best dog was also born of a low showshine dam. That 19.3ss bitch finished with the greatest of ease, and has been one of my best producers. Showshine is just a number with little meaning, and actually I've calculated that the current SOP gives it too much weight. Judges will overlook showeshine if the rest of the dog is nice enough. A few of my best campaigned dogs had less than perfect showeshine. Give them a chance guys.

Also, Gypsy I think you should give showing him a try, maybe change your perspective on low showeshine altogether. wink ;) I stand behind my formula, and it's only been wrong about 5% of the time, because I can't account for hidden factors without running an entire series of analyses, which I don't do for other people dogs, because it's fairly time consuming.

That said I would be happy to analyze anyone's dogs for free with my primary formula. It's a much more sophisticated equation than SOP and I find much more accurate for finding the dogs with the most potential. Developed and tested for over 4 years.
 Analeyn
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1/16/2015 1:42:05 PM reply with quote send message to Analeyn Object to Post

I've been using that formula forever. And I didn't see your post. happy :)

Analeyn
 Spyte
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1/16/2015 8:59:57 PM reply with quote send message to Spyte Object to Post

I did it!! I did it!!! I broke the 95 barrier with this bitch!!!

www.showdog.com/dog.aspx?id=13728692


Leave it to Interstellar! I am so excited about this girl.
 Small Dog Grove
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1/16/2015 9:08:57 PM reply with quote send message to Small Dog Grove Object to Post

this post has been edited 1 time(s)

Whooo! I got a 95! Here's my pretty girl, also out of Interstellar.

www.showdog.com/dog.aspx?id=13728763

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Last edited by Small Dog Grove on 1/16/2015 9:09:29 PM
 Rensvik
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1/16/2015 9:13:15 PM reply with quote send message to Rensvik Object to Post

Congrats!!! lovely puppies both of them.

Spyte -- glad my girl produced for you happy :)

Aussiewolfsister
 Spyte
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1/16/2015 9:46:08 PM reply with quote send message to Spyte Object to Post

I can't wait til this litter is 5 days, I'm already looking for more studs for her!
 Aussiewolfsister
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1/16/2015 9:49:54 PM reply with quote send message to Aussiewolfsister Object to Post

Know that feeling well, am waiting for her half-sister Dreamwalker to be up to 5 days and ready to be mated to Interstellar.

He is going to be a very busy boy *lol*

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